Should women be ordained?

Ceridwen018 · Oct 12, 2004

I don't mean to stifle the discussion here, but the ordination of women will NEVER happen in the Catholic Church. It can't.

Por que no, amigo?

Scott1 · Oct 13, 2004

Hiya C,

The Church has defined the denial of women to the Sacrament of Holy Orders as part of the deposit of faith. This means in can not be changed. The Church has NEVER reversed part of the deposit in 2,000 years....... it can't be done.

cardero · Oct 13, 2004

SOGFPP
The Church has defined the denial of women to the Sacrament of Holy Orders as part of the deposit of faith. This means in can not be changed. The Church has NEVER reversed part of the deposit in 2,000 years....... it can't be done.

What is your personal belief on this? Do you agree with/share the Church's view?

Scott1 · Oct 14, 2004

carrdero,
Of course I agree. I don't subsribe to the notion that because women can't be ordained priests that means they are somehow inferior. The dignity of women and the creation and nuturing of life FAR overshadows the importance of a priest in my opinion. Women help form the souls that the priests will guide in the faith.... the dignity and vocation of women should not be overshadowed by anything in this world. A mother and child sitting in a filthy dirt hut is of a greater beauty than any piece of art or any sunset.... it shows quite simply the beauty of this life and the beauty of God.
Priest or mother? I'd choose to be a mother.

Scott

cardero · Oct 14, 2004

Thanks for the quick response. Was just wondering what your beleif was on the topic.

If I personally had the choice of BEing a priest or a mother I would choose the option of BEing both.

Sunstone · Oct 14, 2004

I think men and women tend to have somewhat different perspectives on things. Both perspectives are valuable. Ordaining women is a way for religious institutions to incorporate the insights of a female perspective.

Scott1 · Oct 14, 2004

carrdero said:
If I personally had the choice of BEing a priest or a mother I would choose the option of BEing both.

I am sure that people wish for a lot of things...... money, fame, eternal life..... just because we want things to happen a certain way, does not mean that is what God intended.

Peace,
Scott

robtex · Oct 14, 2004

Relgion is a reflection of society and as such should have represenatives of both sexes. By letting only men run the religious institutions those relgions I think it would be apt to promote,

1) alienate the woman proportion of their religion--which I can't answer since I am a guy.
2) create an atmosphere of friction amongst the members by picking one sex over the other that will continue into their homes
3) demote love as a product of their religion
4) go against the laws of nature that says there is balance in the world between male and female

2) the friction being caused by acceptance of the dogma that some religons push making men and woman unequal. If men really treated woman like the Bible says woman would still be property of men today in Christian societies. Muslim woman are property of men in part due to their religion. Any dogma presented in a relgious place that has an emotional impact on a member will be carried into the household from time to time. If that dogma is inequality than it will create friction in marriages between men and woman.

3) I think all religious doctrines make an attempt to promote love and things associated with it. I would find it hard to create a loving atmosphere by segrating the responsiblites of a religious instution based on gender.

4) men woman co-exist in nature.....in all species there is conflict and cooporation. Biologically, for non asexual spieces, which is the majority of them including humans, the co-existance of both species is paramount for propogation of that species. Creating a dogma that goes against that fundamental law of nature..If nature is a manifestation of God I can see no point against going against its natural laws.

cardero · Oct 15, 2004

SOGFPP writes: I am sure that people wish for a lot of things...... money, fame, eternal life..... just because we want things to happen a certain way, does not mean that is what God intended.

Though I am sure that BEing a mother and a priest is definitely out of the question for me in this physical existence (maybe the next one), GOD has assured me that his intentions do not really have an effect on my PERSONAL PURPOSE.

On a curious side note I was talking to a co-worker about this same discussion and she exclaimed that if nuns were allowed to have children she would have pursued the calling of a nun. She assured me that the Church also has views about this. I would be interested in your personal views about this.

Scott1 · Oct 15, 2004

carrdero said:
if nuns were allowed to have children she would have pursued the calling of a nun. She assured me that the Church also has views about this.

The Church does have a view about this: a negative view.
Chastity, poverty and obedience.... the life of the consecrated..... it's hard to be a virgin and a mother...... it's only happened once and that was a "bit special" hehe.

If a woman wants children, don't be a nun. Easy. We can serve God in any capacity that life brings us. The most humble servant serves and glorifies God by showing virtue in the workplace. One does not need to make a vow to live a holy life.

Peace,
Scott

cardero · Oct 15, 2004

SOGFPP writes:If a woman wants children, don't be a nun. Easy. We can serve God in any capacity that life brings us. The most humble servant serves and glorifies God by showing virtue in the workplace. One does not need to make a vow to live a holy life.

Though I am not sure in what capacity she had wanted to serve her Church I will pass this information on to her. Once again thank you for the quick response.

FyreBrigidIce · Oct 16, 2004

I only have one thing to say to this and it goes against what I posted in another thread sort of. I stated in another thread that I felt I was unready to become Ordained as my friend and mentor wanted me to be. Today he was here and assured me that I do not need to use it until I am ready but it is good to have when that time comes. I am at this time waiting for my confirmation of being Ordained by ULC.

Ok I lied, I have a few things to say about this. (laughing at myself) This thread reminded me of something my above mentioned mentor used to say to me. When I first started studying paganism (I was studying a few paths at the same time and comparing), I was very drawn to the Goddess aspect. Instead of saying "Thank God" I would spitefully say "Thank Goddes." (No I am not spiteful about it now, I recognize the need for both the male and female aspects of The Higher Being.) My mentor would always say to me "Awww, so you're a feminist, isn't that cute." I laugh at it now because he was only picking and did not mean it in a derrogatory manner.

I accept that some religious organizations do not feel a woman should be a priestess or minister. I do not agree with it anymore than I would agree that a woman should not be President of the United States. Personal opinion of mine only. I figure if we are good enough to give birth to members of such organizations we should be good enough to help lead those organizations and teach as well.

Ok I have rambled on enough again. I look forward to reading other members posts in response to this thread.

Bright Blessings and hugss to all!!!
Brandy aka FyreBrigidIce

Sunstone · Oct 16, 2004

Brandy, it sounds like you've had an interesting journey with much personal growth.

FyreBrigidIce · Oct 16, 2004

Sandstone,
I feel that life is an every learning journey. I am not perfect nor do I expect anyone else to be but I do agree that I am growing spiritually. I learn something every day and enjoy it immensely. Over the past couple of years I took a slight hiatus to studying due to a few tramatic events in my life. My mentor was gone for those years and I had to realize that I can not control everything around me, I can only control my reaction to them. As I stated in another thread, I am working on a persuasive essay for a course I am taking and found this site in a search I was doing. Since beginning this project I have done more studying in the past weeks than I have since 1996 when I first began studying. It has been a blessing as well as an awakening or re-awakening.
Ok ok, again with the rambling. Maybe I should nickname myself FyreBrigidIce the Rambler. (laughing)
Looking forward to reading more.

Bright Blessings and hugs to All!!!!

Brandy aka FyreBrigidIce

Scott1 · Oct 16, 2004

FyreBrigidIce said:
I accept that some religious organizations do not feel a woman should be a priestess or minister. I do not agree with it anymore than I would agree that a woman should not be President of the United States. Personal opinion of mine only. I figure if we are good enough to give birth to members of such organizations we should be good enough to help lead those organizations and teach as well.

Great posts! Welcome. I just want to point out that I have a great deal of respect for women, and there are several outlets for religious women in the ministry (aparrently your faith and many others come to mind).
To view a faith that denies women clergy as deeming women not "good enough" is a bit harsh. My faith has the utmost respect for women..... not having women priests does not have anything to do with which sex is "better", we are only following the example and teachings set by the leader of our Church, Jesus Christ.

Peace be with you,
Scott

Runt · Oct 16, 2004

Just a reminder that everyone needs to respond only to the topic. If you don't know what the topic is, please refer back to the thread's original post.

Gunga_ann · Oct 17, 2004

Ok, now for the Catholic Girl's point of view!
I am not at all descriminated because I cannot be a priest. I am totally fine with it. Women have an important role in the Church. Just by being women we are adding to the dynamics of the Church.
Women can be called to be nuns. Nuns are awesome people. My cousin just recently became one! It is an awesome calling to be called to. They do so much. It is amazing. They help out in the wonderfuly small ways. We are blessed to have them.
Women can also be called to be mothers. That is a wonderful vocation that should be taken with respect. Also, women can be called to be single. That is a wonderful vocation as well.

robtex said:
Relgion is a reflection of society and as such should have represenatives of both sexes. By letting only men run the religious institutions those relgions I think it would be apt to promote,

1) alienate the woman proportion of their religion--which I can't answer since I am a guy. Um, no. I can do so much in my church, I can be a lector, an altar server, a minister of the Eucharist, I am active in my youth group, I can do anything, but be a priest. I am ok with that.
2) create an atmosphere of friction amongst the members by picking one sex over the other that will continue into their homes That is not true, once again, one sex is not better than the other one.
3) demote love as a product of their religion
4) go against the laws of nature that says there is balance in the world between male and female

2) the friction being caused by acceptance of the dogma that some religons push making men and woman unequal. I don't feel any friction. If men really treated woman like the Bible says woman would still be property of men today in Christian societies. Muslim woman are property of men in part due to their religion. The only person I am property to is God. Any dogma presented in a relgious place that has an emotional impact on a member will be carried into the household from time to time. If that dogma is inequality than it will create friction in marriages between men and woman. Once again, not true. My father respects my mother greatly. There is no "I am better than you attitude" that I can see.

3) I think all religious doctrines make an attempt to promote love and things associated with it. I would find it hard to create a loving atmosphere by segrating the responsiblites of a religious instution based on gender. There is no segrating responsiblities. The only thing it that women cannot be priests. Women play an important role in the Church. We give birth to future Catholics, we help nurture children, we do so much.

4) men woman co-exist in nature and in the Church.....in all species there is conflict and cooporation. Biologically, for non asexual spieces, which is the majority of them including humans, the co-existance of both species is paramount for propogation of that species. Creating a dogma that goes against that fundamental law of nature..If nature is a manifestation of God I can see no point against going against its natural laws. Nothing is going against God's natural laws. God calls men to be priests, He calls women to be nuns. Both are important. Both are respected.

Again, from a girl's pov, I find nothin bad about it. I find it awesome!

Gunga_ann · Oct 26, 2004

Did I really stop people from responding to this one? Wow...hehehe....

linwood · Oct 26, 2004

I am not at all descriminated because I cannot be a priest.

Sure you are.
If a woman wishes to hold an office but cannot because the rules of the organization specifically disallow her because of her gender she is being discriminated against.

What do you believe discrimination means?

dis·crim·i·na·tion

The act of discriminating.
The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.

Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners.

Iacobus · Oct 31, 2004

The Catholic Church does not discriminate against women but not alonging them to be priests. There are many outlets in the Church for women to serve in, as Vicky pointed out. The Church needs the priests to function, but by the same token, cannot funtion without the religious sisters, the layity and so forth. The Church has held he Sacred Traditions firm for nearly 2,000 years, inculding not placing women to the level of the priesthood.

An example, the sisters and the "lay ministers" serve vital roles in the Church, much like the roles filled in a choir. The basses may have a soli leaving the tenors to create the harmony, though the tenors are less "grand" because they don't have the soli does the work sound the same or better without them? On a chain the links that connect to the hook have more "status" yet without the links inbetween these two would the chain hold?

Should women be ordained?

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