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Science 3, God 0

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
I applaud the work done by dedicated scientists to relive suffering. On the other hand, consider these facts:

Science has caused tremendous suffering for many, including dread diseases from radiation, chemicals, pollution, and fiendish war weapons.

And lego, particualrly the little corner pieces, has caused much suffering for any parent creeping through the dark.

Jesus cured all who came to him. (Matthew 15:30) He raised persons from the dead, including one man who had been dead 4 days. (John 11:39-44)

God promises that soon, "death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:3,4)

Jesus may have cured all who came to him. But more death, more suffering and more wars have been started and faught over Jesus and God (or in their name) than anything else in History. I need not mind you of the torture implements used by the Inquisition?
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
And lego, particualrly the little corner pieces, has caused much suffering for any parent creeping through the dark.



Jesus may have cured all who came to him. But more death, more suffering and more wars have been started and faught over Jesus and God (or in their name) than anything else in History. I need not mind you of the torture implements used by the Inquisition?

Please don't blame God for the evil men do, men who falsely call themselves followers of the Christ. Jesus himself said he would disown many who claimed to serve him. "Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"(Matthew 7:22,23) it is one thing to claim to be a Christian, an altogether different thing to practice what Christ taught.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
I applaud the work done by dedicated scientists to relive suffering. On the other hand, consider these facts:

Science has caused tremendous suffering for many, including dread diseases from radiation, chemicals, pollution, and fiendish war weapons.

Jesus cured all who came to him. (Matthew 15:30) He raised persons from the dead, including one man who had been dead 4 days. (John 11:39-44)

God promises that soon, "death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:3,4)

I am not sure some of what you posted are in anyway "facts."



"Science has caused tremendous suffering for many, including dread diseases from radiation, chemicals, pollution, and fiendish war weapons."

Science caused them or people?

Life expectancy is higher now then in the past because?

rusra02, your alive right now BECAUSE of science.

Did "God" create all things? Why the battle between good and evil?
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Yes 90' feet tall

How tall was EVE then?

and then what happened that we are as tall as we are today?

"by the way have you ever seen a monkey evolving as human being?"

"Such is the human race, often it seems a pity that Noah... didn't miss the boat."
Mark Twain

I am waiting for Farrukh to respond to how tall Eve was then and how we then became so much shorter. LOL
 

Farrukh

Active Member
I am waiting for Farrukh to respond to how tall Eve was then and how we then became so much shorter. LOL

it is common sense, both were of same height, and don't you see mummy of pharaoh? is it of same height as you are today? he was 1.5m 5ft 7in (about 7 cubits) tall.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
People all around the world every day pray and pray for their cancer, leukemia or HIV to be miraculously taken away. It never happens. Ever.

In the meantime, however, Science has cured both:

Scientists Create Genetically Modified Cells That Protect Against HIV

HIV cleared in 2nd baby.

CAR T-Cell Immunotherapy for ALL - National Cancer Institute

Living Drug beats cancer

Thoughts? :)
My thoughts are Science 0 God 0 because the entire notion of "religion versus science" is silly. It's also arrogant and anthropocentric to assume that if a god exists, then this god should be at our beck and call to take care of all of our problems.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
it is common sense, both were of same height, and don't you see mummy of pharaoh? is it of same height as you are today? he was 1.5m 5ft 7in (about 7 cubits) tall.



So both Adam and Eve were 90 feet tall?

And humans shrank to the size we are today how? Big difference between 90 feet tall and 5.7

That is not common sense and has nothing to do with a pharaoh or any of the early or modern Hominidae family.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Yep prayer never helped anyone.
Except for personal mental benefits. The only thing I can see prayer do is something similar to meditation. It changes a person. Perhaps sometimes it's just helpful to get a relief from sorrows and worries. With that being said, prayers for sure does not work like magical curses, charms, or blessings. Too many religious people have this impression that prayer works like spells. "Wingardium leviosa, in the name of Jesus." Still doesn't make the feather fly. :D
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
according to saying of Holy Prophet, Adam alahe salam was 60 cubits(90ft) tall
"Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543"
90 ft? Seriously? There's no fossil that tall. T. rex got up to 40 feet I think as tallest. Here's a guy that's more than twice that tall? How was his body able to pump blood? Our heart can't pump blood for that amount, neither can our veins take the pressure.

Homo erectus was about 5-5 1/2 feet tall. Australopithecus afarensis was 2-3 feet tall. So looking at the fossil record, we got taller, not shorter from some super-transformer sized giant.

by the way have you ever seen a monkey evolving as human being? :D
Monkey's didn't evolve to humans, so no.

Evolution doesn't say we evolved from monkeys. We share ancestors with monkeys, i.e. we have a common relative in the past. And we're closer related to apes than monkeys, and even closer to chimpanzees and bonobos than gorillas.

Using the same argument as you did, have you ever seen you evolving into me? No? Then neither one of us is related (which means no Adam or Eve) if your point is true. For you and me to be related we have to share a common ancestor. Adam would be a common ancestor to you and me. That doesn't mean that you evolve to me, or that I evolve to you.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
by the way have you ever seen a monkey evolving as human being? :D

This is the sort of simplistic, myopic view of the world that keeps people of religion, essentially, in the Dark Age, I think.

You are willing to believe in your magic skyfairy based on the word of an illiterate, epilieptic shephard, even though you cannot see or hear and have zero evidence of this magic skyfairy, you only have your own faith.

Then refute evolution based on the fact that you've never seen a monkey turn into a human (even though monkeys did not turn into humans originally).

You see no evidence of evolution.

We see no evidence of divinity.

There is a wealth of evidence for evolution.

There is no evidence for divinity.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I am not sure some of what you posted are in anyway "facts."



"Science has caused tremendous suffering for many, including dread diseases from radiation, chemicals, pollution, and fiendish war weapons."

Science caused them or people?

Life expectancy is higher now then in the past because?

rusra02, your alive right now BECAUSE of science.

Did "God" create all things? Why the battle between good and evil?

Scientists created these weapons, in many cases. As to your question about good and evil, that question is answered in the Bible, IMO. (Deuteronomy 32:4-6)
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
God promises that soon, "death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:3,4)

Wholly irresponsible and reckless. Take the daughter of Joseph Fritzel for example. Imagine her locked up in that basement for all those years, raped daily by her father. How she must have beseeched heaven every day for deliverance from that evil. And now you sit here and tell us - in a very roundabout way - that this is okay because she'll get a better deal soon™?

I'm not even sure how one lives with oneself believing such things.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Wholly irresponsible and reckless. Take the daughter of Joseph Fritzel for example. Imagine her locked up in that basement for all those years, raped daily by her father. How she must have beseeched heaven every day for deliverance from that evil. And now you sit here and tell us - in a very roundabout way - that this is okay because she'll get a better deal soon™?

I'm not even sure how one lives with oneself believing such things.

God is not responsible for the evil done by wicked people. Much of the suffering today as in the past is man-made. (James 1:13) For good reasons, God has allowed rebellion against his sovereignty to continue temporarily. Soon, I believe, his day and hour to act against the wicked will arrive. Then, God will send " the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels *in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength." (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Because whilst people pray for their ills (such as cancer) to be cured, it is science that eventually delivers them from it.

Actually, it would be the biological processes of the human body and its interaction with various treatments that delivers people from illness. Science is not necessary for these things to occur. Science is just the ideological toolbox, not the actual, physical tools and mechanisms that do the work. In that respect, this "science" thing pretty similar to some people's concept of god, come to think of it. It's an intangible, ideological force that is magically deemed responsible for fixing things, even when the "true" cause is something else entirely.
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Because whilst people pray for their ills (such as cancer) to be cured, it is science that eventually delivers them from it.

And I could say that God operates through human agency and methodology to grace us with the cures to these illnesses. So it would be Science: Wins / God: Wins.

Doesn't have to be a zero-sum game.
 

averageJOE

zombie
God is not responsible for the evil done by wicked people. Much of the suffering today as in the past is man-made. (James 1:13) For good reasons, God has allowed rebellion against his sovereignty to continue temporarily. Soon, I believe, his day and hour to act against the wicked will arrive. Then, God will send " the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels *in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength." (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)

So basically your saying god is not responsible for evil because he allows it to happen so he can act against it some day...?
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So basically your saying god is not responsible for evil because he allows it to happen so he can act against it some day...?

No, I'm saying what I said. God has good reasons to allow suffering temporarily. One good reason is to allow persons to come to know the true God and be saved from his coming judgment. God's "will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth." (1 Timothy 2:4) If God had brought destruction upon the wicked just 100 years ago, few if any of earth's billions would even have been born. I believe his patience is giving us time to decide whether to accept his mercy or not. "Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) That being said, I believe time is fast running out for the wicked.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
This is the sort of simplistic, myopic view of the world that keeps people of religion, essentially, in the Dark Age, I think.

You are willing to believe in your magic skyfairy based on the word of an illiterate, epilieptic shephard, even though you cannot see or hear and have zero evidence of this magic skyfairy, you only have your own faith.

Then refute evolution based on the fact that you've never seen a monkey turn into a human (even though monkeys did not turn into humans originally).

You see no evidence of evolution.

We see no evidence of divinity.

There is a wealth of evidence for evolution.

There is no evidence for divinity.
Don't forget, the medieval Islamic empire was ahead, technologically and socially, of medieval Europe. While European religious AND SECULAR (this point must be emphasized even stronger because most people overlook this) courts were burning people at the stake for defying church authority, Islamic societies made advances in medicine, school, hygiene, and in other areas that a religious and secular Europe were against. And just FYI, there are indeed plenty of religious scientist today. They aren't in the dark ages, obviously, because they are at the fronts of scientific discovery. And to think that simply cannot be is to ignore the fact that for centuries, science and theology were not so rigidly and aggressively divided as many have held the view that discovering and learning about the universe, through scientific means, is to glorify the creator.

Because whilst people pray for their ills (such as cancer) to be cured, it is science that eventually delivers them from it.
If there is a god, goddess, or a polytheistic model, why should this entity/entities be at our beck and call? This is an awfully big universe. Why would a being that is above this universe care about beings as small, insignificant, and as flawed as human beings? To say we are a speck of dust in the cosmic ocean is, by comparison, making us too large.
 
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