Hinduism Debate

atanu · Mar 1, 2014

मैत्रावरुणिः;3679416 said:
Thank you:

It was a sweeping victory; including
votes by non-Hindus, the tallies now
represent a landslide win of 21 to 6.
Plus, the poll has now been closed.

Yes no less than a landslide. :yes:

Allow me to leave a bit of Upanishad on the matter of victory for the non Hindu readers.

Kena Upanishad
Translation by Swami Nikhilananda

Chapter III

1) Brahman, according to the story, obtained a victory for the gods; and by that victory of Brahman the gods became elated. They said to themselves: "Verily, this victory is ours; verily, this glory is ours only."

2) Brahman, to be sure, understood it all and appeared before them. But they did not know who that adorable Spirit was.

36) They said to Agni (Fire): "O Agni! Find out who this great Spirit is." "Yes," he said and hastened to It. Brahman asked him: "Who are you?" He replied: "I am known as Agni; I am also called Jataveda." Brahman said: "What power is in you, who are so well known?" Fire replied: "I can burn all whatever there is on earth." Brahman put a straw before him and said: "Burn this." He rushed toward it with all his ardour but could not burn it. Then he returned from the Spirit and said to the gods: "I could not find out who this Spirit is,"

710) Then they said to Vayu (Air): "O Vayu! Find out who this great Spirit is." "Yes," he said and hastened to It. Brahman asked him: "Who are you?" He replied "I am known as Vayu; I am also called Matarisva." Brahman said: "What power is in you, who are so well known?" Vayu replied: "I can carry off all whatever there is on earth." Brahman put a straw before him and said: "Carry this." He rushed toward it with all his ardour but could not move it. Then he returned from the Spirit and said to the gods: "I could not find out who this Spirit is,"

1112) Then the gods said to Indra: "O Maghavan! Find out who this great Spirit is." "Yes," he said and hastened to It. But the Spirit disappeared from him. Then Indra beheld in that very region of the sky a Woman highly adorned. She was Uma, the daughter of the Himalayas. He approached Her and said: "Who is this great Spirit?"

Chapter IV

1) She replied: "It is, indeed, Brahman. Through the victory of Brahman alone have you attained glory." After that Indra understood that It was Brahman.

Aupmanyav · Mar 1, 2014

I think the celebratory mood requires a dose of tranquility from Srimad BhagawadGita:

"Duhkheshu anudvigna-manāh, sukheshu vigata-sprahah;
vīta-rāga bhaya krodhah, sthita-dhir munih uchyate."

One who is not disturbed in mind even amidst miseries or elated when there is happiness, and who is free from attachment, fear and anger, is called a sage of steady mind.

Contemplative Cat · Mar 1, 2014

A human heart emits an electromagnetic feild that allows a human to feel the different vibrations of the everchangeing current of Shakti. But don't forget you aren't the heart or the human, You are the Shiva in all shakti.

Satyamavejayanti · Mar 2, 2014

atanu said:
Ha ha. That is true. chArvAks and lokyAtAs were characterised with sweet speech. Yet that does not qualify a chArvAk or a lokyAta as a follower of Sanatana dharma.

Well that is true, But Charvaks were also ridiculing the Brahmins who sacrificed Animals/Humans in Yagna, in Hinduism we need the Charvaks view so to keep the Astikas honest. The modern Atheist vs theistic or Orthodox vs unorthodox is not applicable to Hinduism nor Sanatana Dharmah in the first place, as you would know that traditionally it is Astika (to validate the knowledge about an object using apta authority) and Nastika (to Validate the knowledge about something without apta authority), and with Sanatana Dharmah it is Nigama (common) and Agama (specific) views. I would say the Charvaks are quite welcome.

But anyways, this is my view.

Poeticus · Mar 2, 2014

Satyamavejayanti said:
Well that is true, But Charvaks were also ridiculing the Brahmins who sacrificed Animals/Humans in Yagna

Satya,

May you be kind as to offer me
scriptural or scholarly proof that
supports the notion that humans
were sacrificed alive in Yajña-s
conducted by Brāhmaṇa-s?

Regarding cārvāka or lokāyata,

it is an Indian philosophy, not
a Hindu philosophy, since it is
not of the astika. I believe that
to view it as Hindu would be
misappropriating; don't you view
it this way as well?

Satyamavejayanti · Mar 2, 2014

मैत्रावरुणिः;3680732 said:
Satya,

May you be kind as to offer me
scriptural or scholarly proof that
supports the notion that humans
were sacrificed alive in Yajña-s
conducted by Brāhmaṇa-s?
Regarding cārvāka or lokāyata,
it is an Indian philosophy, not
a Hindu philosophy, since it is
not of the astika. I believe that
to view it as Hindu would be
misappropriating; don't you view
it this way as well?

There was not any human or animal sacrifices in Yagnas in any Veda, that is my point, even the Charvaks could see the practice as illogical.
and being Indian i do accept the Charvak view, but being Astika i have to understand the Charvak view and the come up with my own Sidhanta.
Its all good and easy just blindly accepting that the Charvaks were atheist and whatnot, until you read and understand their Darshan one cant say they were wrong. This is not the Hindu way.

Poeticus · Mar 2, 2014

Satyamavejayanti said:
There was not any human or animal sacrifices in Yagnas in any Veda, that is my point, even the Charvaks could see the practice as illogical....This is not the Hindu way.

However...

Animal sacrifices are ordained, as per Shruti.

Satyamavejayanti · Mar 2, 2014

मैत्रावरुणिः;3680773 said:
However...
Animal sacrifices are ordained, as per Shruti.

Well even that is up for debate, and not to swerve from the OP, i think we can discuss this some other time.

Satyamavejayanti · Mar 2, 2014

As we are debating the Nastika view, and as i accept the Astika view and here is a couple of difference that comes to mind from the Charvaks that i cant agree with.

The Charvaks only accpet 4 elements of the physical world. The Astikas accept 5 elements for the physical world.

The Charvaks accept only Agni, Vayu, Apah and Kstithi they did not accept Akasha as Akasha is not perceived by the physical senses.

I accept Akasha and its existence is inferred, to me the existence of sound inferences the existence of Akasha, which is required for sound to move in.

And another difference is that I accept inference and testimony as a valid means inquiring knowledge about a object, while a Charvak only accepts direct perception as the only valid means of knowledge.

That is just some reason why i have a Astika Darshan, and i respect any Nastika or Charvak who can respect my view.

Simple.

nameless · Mar 2, 2014

Wait wait, its been a month since i posted here. And now i see the Hindu Dir in blue, correct me if i am wrong, am i not allowed to represent my atheistic hinduism anymore in hindu directory?

atanu · Mar 2, 2014

nameless said:
Wait wait, its been a month since i posted here. And now i see the Hindu Dir in blue, correct me if i am wrong, am i now allowed to represent my atheistic hinduism anymore in hindu directory?

Your party was mauled in the polls.

atanu · Mar 2, 2014

Satyamavejayanti said:
- I would say the Charvaks are quite welcome.

But anyways, this is my view.

Agree. chArvAka-s are more than welcome. But, IMO, the chArvAka view, which holds that the body is all that there is, do not correspond to the spiritual Hindu dharma view. I feel uneasy when someone wants to impose this idea, in the garb of "All is Brahman" on Hindu dharma.

Again this is only my view.

nameless · Mar 3, 2014

atanu said:
Your party was mauled in the polls.

मैत्रावरुणिः;3679416 said:
Thank you:
It was a sweeping victory; including
votes by non-Hindus, the tallies now
represent a landslide win of 21 to 6.
Plus, the poll has now been closed.

Congrats for mauling us atheist hindus.:clap
Enjoy the party.
Been a hindu member in this forum for more than 5 years, now i am feeling so much grateful.

atanu · Mar 3, 2014

nameless said:
Congrats for mauling us atheist hindus.:clap
Enjoy the party.
Been a hindu member in this forum for more than 5 years, now i am feeling so much grateful.

You are always welcome man, atheist or theist. Personally, I felt that it was not proper to put forth the chArvAka view as of "advaita" and claim that that was supported by "All is Brahman".

Advaita means a specific teaching. And "All is Brahman" has to correspond to the sat-chit-ananda nature. One cannot discard the basics and yet claim to be an advaitin and claim that "All is Brahman". I hope, I am not creating more confusion.

We however can request the Admin to create a forum called Indian Philosophy to represent all sides better. Can we discuss this point?

Regards

Poeticus · Mar 3, 2014

nameless said:
Congrats for mauling us atheist hindus.:clap
Enjoy the party.

...That^ was not the intention of
the Poll vote. The desire to change
the color of the HinduDIR was
in order:

1) to curb the increased amount
of debating going on, and...

2) to curb the increased amount
of non-contributive posting being
done by self-identified non-Hindus.

Maya3 · Mar 5, 2014

to curb the increased amount
of non-contributive posting being
done by self-identified non-Hindus.

Self identified non Hindus? Someone who is Hindu but says that he/she is not? Or someone who is NOT Hindu and says that he/she is not?
Or do you mean someone who says that she/he IS Hindu but you or other people don't believe it?

I'm confused.

Maya

Vinayaka · Mar 5, 2014

Maya3 said:
I'm confused.

Maya

Me too. A normal state of mind.

But to address it a bit , maybe. The mere act of calling yourself a Hindu isn't sufficient. As per the analogy to Indian taxi drivers who convert back and forth on an hourly basis according to the religious identification of their passenger, it clearly isn't enough. At the same time there is a conundrum around determining who is, who isn't. The best way, in my opinion, is really honest self-analysis. Some youngsters will claim it because they think its cool. Then when they enter a discussion, or some such other 'Hindu' event, they realise by themselves that they aren't Hindu. This has happened here. So the question, "Am I a Hindu?" isn't to be taken that lightly. That's why I started the thread on 'What makes a Hindu a Hindu" For self evaluation. But then it got misunderstood as some test I made up.

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck .....

The only difference between this discussion here versus in other faiths, is that they often put 'real' in front of it. So here that would become 'real Hndu'.

Poeticus · Mar 5, 2014

Maya3 said:
Or someone who is NOT Hindu and says that he/she is not?

Self-identified non-Hindu would be someone
that doesn't see him/herself as Hindu, and
identifies with another religion or belief. Thus,
"someone who is not Hindu and says that
he/she is not [Hindu]", is correct.

Maya3 · Mar 5, 2014

मैत्रावरुणिः;3683946 said:
Self-identified non-Hindu would be someone
that doesn't see him/herself as Hindu, and
identifies with another religion or belief. Thus,
"someone who is not Hindu and says that
he/she is not [Hindu]", is correct.

Ok, thanks

Vinayaka, not sure if I walk like a duck when it comes to Hinduism, but if people don't believe me then there is nothing I can do about it.

Maya

Poeticus · Mar 5, 2014

Vinayaka said:
The mere act of calling yourself a Hindu isn't sufficient.

I think I would have to agree...

...this is where karma comes in,
and I don't mean "it's your karma"...

...but, in the Vaidika sense: of action,
conduction, practice...

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