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Islam debate

Godobeyer

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
AmbiguousGuy said:
More wise words. (And they are Godobeyer's words... not God's words.:))

I hope more Muslims come to see it as you do. When belief is enforced upon people with the sword -- that's unhealthy.
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the biggest muslim state " Indonisia" and north africa , and most of the Muslim countries ....etc enter to Islam without any sword :)

how you explain that ?


because there is more than one interpretation :
I am with "There is no compulsion" , it's include the "apostasy"

so killing the apostasy in the period of war was required only if it's become an enemy .WAS TEMPORARY CASE .
Allah knows best .
 
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A

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
Godobeyer said:
the biggest muslim state " Indonisia" and north africa , and most of the Muslim countries ....etc enter to Islam without any sword :)

how you explain that ?
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I don't know anything about the conversion of those countries... how it was done.

But if there is compulsion for Muslims to remain Muslims, then I think that's unhealthy. If there is a God, He would not want his brainy creatures to be sheep.
 
Enai de a lukal

Enai de a lukal

Well-Known Member
Yuusif12 said:
My belief is Sunni. The prophet said that this religion will split into 73 sects, all of them in the hellfire except one. So his companions asked him: which is that one? He said what me and my companions are on. And that is what Sunni islam is...
Those who are not Muslims will go to hell.
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What does it mean, in your estimation, to "go to hell"? I mean, normally going somewhere- as in, I go to the grocery store or the library- involves physically moving to that location; but how does someone go somewhere after they are dead? And is hell a physical location? If so, how does one get there without a body? If not, how does one "go" there at all? :shrug:
 
Y

Yuusif12

Member
(FearGod) Bukhari 9.84.57
The Hadith of killing apostates. Where did you get, "only kill them in war" from anyway?
It's like you are changing your religion because society doesn't accept it.

And I said that "there is no compulsion in the religion" means, no one is forced to accept Islam.

Allah sent down Islam for the benefit of the people. So anything in it is for the good of them.

Everyone will be raised from their graves. Hell is physical location.
 
Y

Yuusif12

Member
Everyone will be brought back to life again and gathered in one plain, the righteous people will go to heaven and the evil will go to hell

I don't know where hell is
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
YmirGF said:
So, to be fair, it is not a universal statement that there is no compulsion of any kind in religion. It only refers to forcing others into a particular religious viewpoint. For example, advising women to cover their hair, even mildly, IS compulsion. Forcing them to do it is another thing, but even suggesting they do it is still compelling another to do something.

Would it not be a much fairer statement to say, "There is no compulsion in religion in some situations." Or perhaps, "When calling people to Islam, the use of compulsion is forbidden."

I know, I know, neither of them sounds so broad minded...
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Do you think women should be free in choosing what to wear for the outdoor ?
What if they choose to go to college wearing bikini ? Freedom
 
Sees

Sees

Dragonslayer
Still waiting if Yuusif or another Muslim will comment on or answer some of these?

I've asked similar to literally hundreds of Muslims and they don't get answered :shrug:

Sees said:
Why is it that Rabbi commentary ended up in the Qur'an as "scripture sent to the Jews" in your opinion?

Also do you think this implicates that Muhammad did not understand what was Tanakh or simply commentary, when it comes to what he heard from Jews?

I can understand Muhammad getting it wrong but not a God :shrug:

Also what do you make of the demonic/torturous meetings between the angel and Muhammad when he was forced to recite what would become the Qur'an?

What do you make of the "Satanic Verses" that were remitted by Muhammad after he realized they went against monotheism and the rest of his recitals?
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C

credance

dufus
Credance. You are hating Islam and you know nothing about it. Even if someone tryed to tell you would you listen?
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I don't hate Islam. I do know there is a lot of world that exist outside of Islam and I stand by my comment that I don't want to be a Muslim.
I wouldn't want to be a Republican Senator either. I would most certainly go to hell if hell exist.
 
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FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Sees said:
Still waiting if Yuusif or another Muslim will comment on or answer some of these?

Why is it that Rabbi commentary ended up in the Qur'an as "scripture sent to the Jews" in your opinion?

Also do you think this implicates that Muhammad did not understand what was Tanakh or simply commentary, when it comes to what he heard from Jews?

I can understand Muhammad getting it wrong but not a God :shrug:

Also what do you make of the demonic/torturous meetings between the angel and Muhammad when he was forced to recite what would become the Qur'an?

What do you make of the "Satanic Verses" that were remitted by Muhammad after he realized they went against monotheism and the rest of his recitals?

I've asked similar to literally hundreds of Muslims and they don't get answered :shrug:
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I didn't get your point about the scripture of the Jews and how prophet Mohammed got it wrong.

Whats wrong with the angel informing the prophet to convey the message ?

What is the story of the Satanic verses ?
 
Sees

Sees

Dragonslayer
FearGod said:
I didn't get your point about the scripture of the Jews and how prophet Mohammed got it wrong.

Whats wrong with the angel informing the prophet to convey the message ?

What is the story of the Satanic verses ?
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7 heavens, "killing one is as if killing all mankind", and more....are not from Jewish scriptures but are Rabbi musings/commentary...how did it make it in the Qur'an?

Muhammad described his eencounters with Gabriel the way people describe demonic attacks or psychological issues in mental hospitals. He said he couldn't sleep and he was terribly frightened. His wife assured him it was actually the Jewish God.

The infamous Satanic Verses are where Muhammad mentioned giving honor to Allah's daughters but later retracted and said Satan whispered such falsehood into his ears.

Basically it all makes his revelations extremely skeptical. No idea what type of spirit, jinn, or psychological issues were inspiring him or what have you. The fact that he could have cobbled it up from Jews, Greeks, Persians, and made up some rules and regulations to create the Qur'an entirely.
 
Enai de a lukal

Enai de a lukal

Well-Known Member
Yuusif12 said:
Everyone will be brought back to life again and gathered in one plain, the righteous people will go to heaven and the evil will go to hell

I don't know where hell is
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I always forget this about Islam... At least its definitely cooler than Christianity's eschatological mythology- this sounds like a zombie movie.

But anyways, if hell is a physical location, then it is located in the physical universe- so it is possible, at least in principle, to visit hell not by dying, but by simply going there. What would happen if, say, some advanced alien culture's space program discovered hell and landed there to explore? :shrug:
 
A

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
enaidealukal said:
But anyways, if hell is a physical location, then it is located in the physical universe- so it is possible, at least in principle, to visit hell not by dying, but by simply going there. What would happen if, say, some advanced alien culture's space program discovered hell and landed there to explore? :shrug:
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Paradise... I'd love to own all the shuttle buses to Paradise.
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Sees said:
7 heavens, "killing one is as if killing all mankind", and more....are not from Jewish scriptures but are Rabbi musings/commentary...how did it make it in the Qur'an?
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We believe the Torah was corrupted and hence you can't know or prove if that commentary was indeed God's word or just invented by the rabbis.

Sees said:
Muhammad described his eencounters with Gabriel the way people describe demonic attacks or psychological issues in mental hospitals. He said he couldn't sleep and he was terribly frightened. His wife assured him it was actually the Jewish God.
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Did you talk personally with prophet Mohammed that you know what kind of person he is or you judge him for what the pagans had said about him.

[youtube]vPJszStth7k[/youtube]
The Greatest Man - Muhammad

[youtube]mNZPmDS8cSg[/youtube]
Reasoning the Revelation from God -- Part 1 of 2 - Abdur Raheem Green - YouTube

Sees said:
The infamous Satanic Verses are where Muhammad mentioned giving honor to Allah's daughters but later retracted and said Satan whispered such falsehood into his ears.
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That was a fabricated story,why you need to believe it as to be the truth while it isn't.

[youtube]0lApOcX9dg0[/youtube]
The Fabricated Satanic Verses against the holy Quran-investigateislam - YouTube

Sees said:
Basically it all makes his revelations extremely skeptical. No idea what type of spirit, jinn, or psychological issues were inspiring him or what have you. The fact that he could have cobbled it up from Jews, Greeks, Persians, and made up some rules and regulations to create the Qur'an entirely.
Click to expand...

That what you wanted to believe but that won't make it to be the truth.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Yuusif12 said:
And I said that "there is no compulsion in the religion" means, no one is forced to accept Islam.
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So it doesn't really mean there is no compulsion in religion, which is a pretty sweeping statement, and one used by some Muslims to place a happy face on Islam, but since the statement really only applies to forced conversions it is simply disingenuous. But even in this context, it isn't really true because if we are to believe the account in the cave on Mt. Hira between Muhammad and Gabriel, Muhammad was compelled three times to "Recite/Read". Gabriel wasn't exactly nice about it - according to Islamic chroniclers.

Yuusif12 said:
Everyone will be raised from their graves.
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Personally, I see this as one of the more peculiar ideas in Islam. It isn't particularly believable.
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
YmirGF said:
So it doesn't really mean there is no compulsion in religion, which is a pretty sweeping statement, and one used by some Muslims to place a happy face on Islam, but since the statement really only applies to forced conversions it is simply disingenuous. But even in this context, it isn't really true because if we are to believe the account in the cave on Mt. Hira between Muhammad and Gabriel, Muhammad was compelled three times to "Recite/Read". Gabriel wasn't exactly nice about it - according to Islamic chroniclers.
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The case of prophet Mohammed and Gabriel isn't compulsion but it is a mission that should be fulfilled.

Imagine that you hear a real voice talking to you where there is no one around you,then that voice called you by name and asked you to convey the message from the creator of the universe.

One of 2,if you were brave enough then you'll convey the message otherwise you'll visit a Psychiatrist.


YmirGF said:
Personally, I see this as one of the more peculiar ideas in Islam. It isn't particularly believable.
Click to expand...

How did you come to life,wasn't you just a very tiny sperm.
Did your father manufactured the sperm or his body was designed to produce those amazing sperms.
Was you ever existed before being a sperm.
You aren't surprised because you accepted those things as facts because you are seeing them happening but did you ever wonder how those things are really happening.

Have a look at a tiny seed that becomes a very huge tree that bearing many fruits that contains many seeds.

It looks as magic but we accepted it as facts and reality.
 
Looncall

Looncall

Well-Known Member
FearGod said:
The case of prophet Mohammed and Gabriel isn't compulsion but it is a mission that should be fulfilled.

Imagine that you hear a real voice talking to you where there is no one around you,then that voice called you by name and asked you to convey the message from the creator of the universe.

One of 2,if you were brave enough then you'll convey the message otherwise you'll visit a Psychiatrist.




How did you come to life,wasn't you just a very tiny sperm.
Did your father manufactured the sperm or his body was designed to produce those amazing sperms.
Was you ever existed before being a sperm.
You aren't surprised because you accepted those things as facts because you are seeing them happening but did you ever wonder how those things are really happening.

Have a look at a tiny seed that becomes a very huge tree that bearing many fruits that contains many seeds.

It looks as magic but we accepted it as facts and reality.
Click to expand...

It looks like magic only to those ignorant of how it happens.

"There are fewer things in heaven and earth than are dreampt of in your theology."
(to mangle poor old Shakespeare)
 
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