Is there a war on Christians?

Pah · Oct 15, 2004

.... or is it more of a persecution complex?

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--The Christian worldview is under assault, and believers must fight back by combating the advance of secular values, best-selling author David Limbaugh said at the Baptist Press Excellence in Journalism Banquet in Nashville, Tenn., Oct. 9.

We are engaged in a culture war in this country, Limbaugh said. I believe that Christians are the primary targets of the secular humanists who are engaged in this culture war.... Our entire Christian worldview is under siege.

Complete article found here

Is David Limbaugh, correct or is it a holdover from the early days of Christianity when persections were real?

-pah-

meogi · Oct 15, 2004

I believe that Christians are the primary targets of the secular humanists who are engaged in this culture war.... Our entire Christian worldview is under siege.

It couldn't be, that you're the one's who pushed your ways into our faces first could it? You get mad when we fight back, and start to win? Look buddy, I don't care what you believe in. Stop trying to force others to believe it as well.

Many secularists assault the Christian worldview because they want to supplant Christian values with their values, and Christians are in the way of that, he said.

Who gives Christianity the right to believe their morals are on a higher level than everyone else? And what values are under attack? Homosexuality? Abortion? That's honestly all I can think of atm.

Reading this guys stuff makes my head hurt. Such fundamentalism...

robtex · Oct 15, 2004

http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/051404.htm

I found this on DL and secular politics....

I would agree with him about the state staying out of the Luthern churches affairs as long as they were legal. They can kick out and accept whom they choose.

In gneral though there is a polarity between secular beliefs and Christanity espcially in regards to secular humanism. The secular targets are not Christians but values that are incongruent with their own. It has been my observation that many in the Christian world contend that morality cannot exist without religion which is far different than saying morality can work in conjunction with religion. Having the foremention opinion the entire area of secular humanism is a lost cause as it has no coventent with the Christian God. By not being able to seperate theism from humanity humanistic deeds may be dimished in value by fundalmentaist belief engines. The greatest contradiction being the belief in theism and its conjuncted need for humanity.

The areas of humanity commonly addressed by many Christians as moralistily sour are:

1) abortion/stem cell research
2) sexual orientation/homosexuality/lesbiansim/same couple marriage
3) religious choice outside of Christianty

As the self-appointed champions of humanity they seem to feel that any humanistic choice directly affects them as children of God.

In regards to D Limbaugh,

http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/blog.aspx

his focus on political issues suggests that he cannot (a) seperate church and state in his mind and (b) cannot see morarlity from a viewpoint other than the Bible. He is a living example of why there should be a seperation of Church and state. It could be hard for people to follow him as a man of God and not think God wanted a paricular action. But in the same breath I see all groups with a combined goal as policial and would see how they would find it hard to stay out of state and federal politics.

painted wolf · Oct 15, 2004

personally I think deep down fundies want Christianity to be persecuted or at least feel like they are because it gives them more power to whip the gullible into a frenzy. If people feel they are in danger (real or imagined) they are more willing to lash out and go to the dangerous extremes that we have seen in the past.

face it fear is power.

wa:do

Sunstone · Oct 15, 2004

I agree with Painted Wolf. I think some fundamentalist Christian leaders, such as James Dobson or Pat Robinson, have a vested interest in portraying any disagreements between their fundamentalism and mainstream society as a "war" over values, etc. It helps them to "rally the troops", brings them power and donations.

OfPeace · Oct 16, 2004

WE ARE AT WAR!
WE ARE AT WAR!
WE ARE AT WAR!

You see it on this forum (yeah, I know youre here acting like you're someone you are not.) You see it on the Net. You see it in your societies. There are sinister beings floating around carrying wealth from Christians' backs, instigating division, promoting evil, making false judgements against Christianity and Christians, living day and night to destroy Christians, and organizing sophisticated organizations and networks in every Christian country to make you be subject to them. I am not going to mention any names, but it has something to do with the second largest religion in the world. Every Christian needs to be active. Every Christian should thoroughly understand Christianity. Christians need to be involved in their community, spreading the message of Jesus, and giving Jesus Christ a place in the heart of others. What does Christianity stand for? It stands for love, and peace. Christians seek technology, seek peace, and seek happiness for all human beings. If you like that, then join us, because only with us will you be assured to get it. Christians seek the common good; many others seek exactly the opposite: the submission of others to them.

What can Christians do to win this war? They can spread the Word. We haven't grown to our current size and status by being weak in faith.

_salam_ · Oct 16, 2004

OfPeace said:
There are sinister beings floating around carrying wealth from Christians' backs, instigating division, promoting evil, making false judgements against Christianity and Christians, living day and night to destroy Christians, and organizing sophisticated organizations and networks in every Christian country to make you be subject to them. I am not going to mention any names, but it has something to do with the second largest religion in the world.QUOTE]

How is it that you can think that Islam (which is the second largest religion in the world for those that don't know) is the source of these "secular humanists" that are engaging the Christians in a "culture war in this country" against these "secular values". This is rediculous! Do you not understand that we are fighting the same fight. This is one of the reasons the Middle East doesn't like the U.S. moving in and instilling our way of life over there, because the Muslim people don't want our (the U.S.'s) secular laws and materialistic way of life. This is the same thing that this guy David Limbaugh and his followers don't want. However I don't think that this is what your trying to portray, I have a feeling that your trying to portray Islam as wanting to wipe out Christianity. This again is rediculous! No where in Islam does it say to go out and kill and oppress Christians. I don't understand why you have such a negative view of Islam. I don't know if you had a bad experience with Muslims in the past or what the problem is. If that is the case then I am truely sorry for it and want you to know that this is not the majority, for Islam is a very loving and caring religion, just as Christianity is. Mainly because we share the same teachings from the same Prophets. The concept behind both of our religions is the same idea, the submission to the will of God. We both wish for God's will to be done here on earth, in fact the Our Father prayer puts it very nicely when it says "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven". We both share the idea of loving others, including our enemies. In Matthew 5:44 it says

"But I tell you: Love your enemies",

and in the Qur'an 8:63 when talking about the Believers and their enemies it says

"And He has put affection between their hearts"

and in 60:7-8

"It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom you hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things); and Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. Allah does not forbid you, with regard to those who do not fight you for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loves those who are just."

There are many more related ideals within our great religions and I invite you to read the Qur'an and learn about Islam with an openmind so that you can make an educated decision on your own without other peoples biase getting in the way. I'm not trying to convert you, but instead share my religion with you, because we can't have peace in this world until we understand what makes us different (or the same in some cases). Because as our screen names suggest we both want peace in this world (salam means peace in Arabic).

oisin3 · Oct 16, 2004

In my opinion I believe we are going back to the old religions Islam, Judaism and Roman Catholism.And the greater Evil is Catholism

Feathers in Hair · Oct 16, 2004

OfPeace said:
Christians seek the common good; many others seek exactly the opposite: the submission of others to them.

Thank all that is good that there are no Christians who seek the submission of others!... Oh, wait.

You're getting better by 'not naming names', OfPeace, but why do all your posts wind up this way?

And, no, this is not an example of 'war on Christians.' Two or three of the most beautiful people I know here, Lightkeeper and SOGFPP among them, are Catholic/ Christian. This is me simply wondering why you are so intent on this topic.

roli · Oct 16, 2004

We can all discuss our views and beliefs of whether God exists until Hell freezes over and it won't change the fact that we all will stand before God our judge to recieve our sentence for sin ( transgression of law) and how we acted here on earth and what we did with JESUS and his sacrifice.
Whether a person believes or is a skeptical atheist does not change the fact that God exists and will punish sin where it is found unless you recieve forgiveness thru his perfect sacrifice, Jesus . You broke God's law you will pay the price maybe this life seems to you like you have escaped God's punishment but ther will be a day of reckoning,
Breaking God's law is much like breaking any law in the universe , there is a consequence ,maybe not immediate, but nevertheless it is coming , you can alter it and defy it by introducing another law such as a plane defies gravity by introducing thrust but the consequences will come when the fuel is exhusted . It is like the breath in all of us when exhusted we will answer for our defiance and disobedience of God's law

roli · Oct 16, 2004

Why is there a war on the Christians because a possible denial of truth

Jaymes · Oct 16, 2004

OfPeace said:
You see it on this forum (yeah, I know youre here acting like you're someone you are not.)

Oh no! HOW did we not hide our blatant Christian-bashing well enough?! How did we not hide the daily banning of hundreds of Christians simply for their faith?!

Here, look! I eve have references!

... wait, no I don't.

It's almost like it's... not happening.

There are sinister beings floating around carrying wealth from Christians' backs, instigating division, promoting evil, making false judgements against Christianity and Christians, living day and night to destroy Christians, and organizing sophisticated organizations and networks in every Christian country to make you be subject to them.

They sacrifice babies too, don't they?

I am not going to mention any names, but it has something to do with the second largest religion in the world.

Way to not name names. "I won't name any names, but COUGHISLAMCOUGH..."

Every Christian needs to be active. Every Christian should thoroughly understand Christianity.

Now I do agree with that. If that happened we wouldn't be at war, since we would have turned the other cheek. Or how there wouldn't be any bigotry, since you shouldn't cast the first stone unless you've committed no sin.

What does Christianity stand for? It stands for love, and peace. Christians seek technology, seek peace, and seek happiness for all human beings. If you like that, then join us, because only with us will you be assured to get it.

I don't think I need membership in the Christian club, I already get everything mentioned out of my spirituality.

And what about Amish people? They're Christian, and they don't seek technology at all.

Christians seek the common good; many others seek exactly the opposite: the submission of others to them.

And Christianity doesn't encourage the submission of women in any way.

At all.

In fact, women can be preachers, pastors, bishops, whatever they want. Because Christianity is equal, and doesn't want submission.

Wait... not they can't.

What can Christians do to win this war? They can spread the Word. We haven't grown to our current size and status by being weak in faith.

Yea, you've grown to your current size by scare tactics and calling any thoughts opposed to Christianity Satanic.

Roli: Every last bit of that post should be proceeded by 'in my opinion,' or 'my religion teaches that.' You can't prove it. I can say that there's a planet with giant squid that sacrifice human babies on it a billion miles away in another solar system and you couldn't disprove me, but that doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

robtex · Oct 16, 2004

Roli ,are Christian values under attack like Mr. Limbaugh stated?

Pah · Oct 16, 2004

robtex said:
Roli ,are Christian values under attack like Mr. Limbaugh stated?

Christian values as they are imposed on a secular social structure? - yes.

Christian values held by Christians? - no.

Is Christianity then under attack? - no

-pah-

oisin3 · Oct 16, 2004

I read someplace in the Bible, that nations shall rise against nations, and they in the last day's will search for Peace. And that there will be No peace. Men/women will be lovers of themselves, more than lovers of God. Knowledge will be increased. The message (Good News) will be told to everyone in the whole world.
The beast 666 is coming first.

What's this all about?

Rudyabdul · Oct 16, 2004

pah said:
Christian values as they are imposed on a secular social structure? - yes.

Christian values held by Christians? - no.

Is Christianity then under attack? - no

-pah-

I believe that Christianity has declared war on other religons/beliefs.

Pah · Oct 16, 2004

oisin3 said:
I read someplace in the Bible, that nations shall rise against nations, and they in the last day's will search for Peace. And that there will be No peace. Men/women will be lovers of themselves, more than lovers of God. Knowledge will be increased. The message (Good News) will be told to everyone in the whole world.
The beast 666 is coming first.

What's this all about?

While this may be an interesting question, it does not belong in this thread. I suggest that you use it to start anoither thread

Please stick to the topic of this thread.

-pah-

oisin3 · Oct 16, 2004

The Roman Catholic Church has declared war on protestant churches in Ireland for centries. Now they wish to carry their war into the United States.

Ardhanariswar · Oct 16, 2004

... people are soo paranoid.

chill out people. by the time the *beast* or the lord will come, it wont be in your lifetime and, we will all die and instead see them both after, not in this world, but before the next.

Dayv · Oct 16, 2004

Wow!!! "promoting 'evil'," "making false judgements" and "organizing sophisticated organizations and networks in every Christian country to make you be subject to them." WOWEE WOW!! Nothing like that has ever happened before. I mean, no group of people has ever made up lies about other religions and infultrated their societies to destroy their beliefs! Oh wait, except Christianity trying to wipe out nearly every other belief system they came across for the greater part of the last 2000 years.
If you want to talk about promoting evil and making false judgements, look back at your own religion's history! Christianity has slaughtered millions who refused to convert and wiped numorous faiths from existance. They spread lies constantly to make other groups seem evil, such as saying that the Celts did ritual human sacrafices (of which there is no proof) and that their Druids summoned demons in battle. They turtored and killed numorous druids who refused to give up their beliefs. And this is just against the druids (don't get me started on the inquisition).
The way I see it, it's time Christianity gets what it deserves, not that I agree with the killings of Christians, but most all else seems like a bit of karma to me.

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