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Why does Bible literalist ignore the multiple verses that declare God is going to ultimately save al

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Benoni

Well-Known Member
Shiranui117 said:
Just as damning other people to Hell is a sin, deciding that everyone ever will be saved is a sin. The fact is, we don't know how God will judge. We can hope that He will save all, but that depends on the heart of the person, and we cannot say for sure how the Judgement will go down. It's very dangerous to assume who will be saved and who will not, and it is very dangerous to assume how many will be saved and how many will not.
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It’s pretty easy to understand how God’s judgments will go down, His name is Jesus. He reverse the sin of Adam.

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.


1 Corinthians 15:22-24
http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=2http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=222For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
 
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Dinner123

Member
Benoni said:
Why would God want to allow steal a soul? Did not God create all of us in His image and likeness.


Satan is a tool in God’s hand. Look at Job 1. Job 1:8And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job , that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?" 9Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "Does Job fear God for no reason? 10Have you not put(Q) a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11But stretch out your hand and(T) touch all that he has, and he will(U) curse you(V) to your face." 12And the LORD said to Satan,

"Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand." So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

God is in control of all things; sure He limited what Satan could do; for a reason because God is always in complete control of all things to include Satan. But it was God who was the one who introduced Satan to Job “Have you considered my servant Job”. It was God who took down the hedge from around Job so Satan to do his work on job. It was the process of tribulation and trial God was after; to prove Job.
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God knew satan's thoughts and saw that he already was considering Job. Why do you think satan came to God? To get permission to test Job. Because God is in control of all. But you can't just take a verse and set it against other verses that are just as valid. We know satan fell from heaven and that if there is a war in heaven then satan can't just be doing what God tells him to do. He is fighting God's holy angels. Opposing not just man, but God. And, yes he is an angel, or more literally called a cherub. (Eze. 28:19) And, if satan is cast into the lake of fire, you can be sure he is disobedient to God and is a sinner.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
Dinner123 said:
God knew satan's thoughts and saw that he already was considering Job. Why do you think satan came to God? To get permission to test Job. Because God is in control of all. But you can't just take a verse and set it against other verses that are just as valid. We know satan fell from heaven and that if there is a war in heaven then satan can't just be doing what God tells him to do. He is fighting God's holy angels. Opposing not just man, but God. And, yes he is an angel, or more literally called a cherub. (Eze. 28:19) And, if satan is cast into the lake of fire, you can be sure he is disobedient to God and is a sinner.
Click to expand...

God knew satan's thoughts and saw that he already was considering Job. Why do you think satan came to God? To get permission to test Job. Because God is in control of all. But you can't just take a verse and set it against other verses that are just as valid. We know satan fell from heaven and that if there is a war in heaven then satan can't just be doing what God tells him to do. He is fighting God's holy angels. Opposing not just man, but God. And, yes he is an angel, or more literally called a cherub. (Eze. 28:19) And, if satan is cast into the lake of fire, you can be sure he is disobedient to God and is a sinner.
That is my point, God is in control of all, you said it yourself.

I did not take a verse and set it against any verse, No Satan is not an angel, that is a religious myth. Nowhere does it say in Eze. 28:19 that Lucifer and Satanare one in the same.
Let’s look at some facts why Satan cannot be Lucifer.
From your perspective, the Bible is pretty clear that God created Lucifer an anointed cherub ( Ezekiel 28:14) Or anointed angel same thought.
But let’s look at: II Cor. 11:14. It says Satan is able to transform himself into an angel of light, but according to the Greek, the word is not transform -- it is MASQUERADE (Strong's).
This is as close as he has ever been to being light -- as a masquerading actor. Satan is masquerading as an angel of light.
Wow. God Word even tells us.

The word LUCIFER is used only ONCE in the entirety of the Bible, which is found in Isaiah 14:12, It reads, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning!" This so very often and little understood word comes from the Hebrew word HEYLEL which simply means SHINING ONE (Young's Concordance), MORNING STAR (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance),
BRIGHT STAR or SPLENDID STAR (Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon). etc.

LUCIFER is the Latin word which was translated from heylel. Heylel is not a proper noun but is a word that Tells us something about the one spoken of.

The Hebrew does not indicate this is a Personal name, not in the remotest sense; nonetheless, the Latin translators (ROME) rendered it as such.

Isaiah 54:16 is speaking of Satan, for Satan is a liar a murderer and waster and that is how God created him not as a MASQUERADE angel.

Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.


You claim: "Satan was created as a holy angel. Isaiah 14:12 possibly gives Satan’s pre-fall name as Lucifer.

But Satan is never mentioned in Isaiah 14:12 and seeing : II Cor. 11:14. Declares Satan masquerading as an angel of light is Lucifer Satan????.


Ezekiel 28:12-14 describes Lucifer as having been created a cherubim, apparently the highest created angel. He became arrogant in his beauty and status and decided he wanted to sit on a throne above that of God

Never mentions Satan again. I see this as Adam not Satan. Adam fell from God’s grace Satan is masquerading as an angel of light.

1 Timothy 3:6) says the man will fall same condemnation as the devil. It does not say Satan fell.


 
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Dinner123

Member
Benoni said:
God knew satan's thoughts and saw that he already was considering Job. Why do you think satan came to God? To get permission to test Job. Because God is in control of all. But you can't just take a verse and set it against other verses that are just as valid. We know satan fell from heaven and that if there is a war in heaven then satan can't just be doing what God tells him to do. He is fighting God's holy angels. Opposing not just man, but God. And, yes he is an angel, or more literally called a cherub. (Eze. 28:19) And, if satan is cast into the lake of fire, you can be sure he is disobedient to God and is a sinner.
That is my point, God is in control of all, you said it yourself.

I did not take a verse and set it against any verse, No Satan is not an angel, that is a religious myth. Nowhere does it say in Eze. 28:19 that Lucifer and Satanare one in the same.
Let’s look at some facts why Satan cannot be Lucifer.
From your perspective, the Bible is pretty clear that God created Lucifer an anointed cherub ( Ezekiel 28:14) Or anointed angel same thought.
But let’s look at: II Cor. 11:14. It says Satan is able to transform himself into an angel of light, but according to the Greek, the word is not transform -- it is MASQUERADE (Strong's).
This is as close as he has ever been to being light -- as a masquerading actor. Satan is masquerading as an angel of light.
Wow. God Word even tells us.

The word LUCIFER is used only ONCE in the entirety of the Bible, which is found in Isaiah 14:12, It reads, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning!" This so very often and little understood word comes from the Hebrew word HEYLEL which simply means SHINING ONE (Young's Concordance), MORNING STAR (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance),
BRIGHT STAR or SPLENDID STAR (Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon). etc.

LUCIFER is the Latin word which was translated from heylel. Heylel is not a proper noun but is a word that Tells us something about the one spoken of.

The Hebrew does not indicate this is a Personal name, not in the remotest sense; nonetheless, the Latin translators (ROME) rendered it as such.

Isaiah 54:16 is speaking of Satan, for Satan is a liar a murderer and waster and that is how God created him not as a MASQUERADE angel.

Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.


You claim: "Satan was created as a holy angel. Isaiah 14:12 possibly gives Satan’s pre-fall name as Lucifer.

But Satan is never mentioned in Isaiah 14:12 and seeing : II Cor. 11:14. Declares Satan masquerading as an angel of light is Lucifer Satan????.


Ezekiel 28:12-14 describes Lucifer as having been created a cherubim, apparently the highest created angel. He became arrogant in his beauty and status and decided he wanted to sit on a throne above that of God

Never mentions Satan again. I see this as Adam not Satan. Adam fell from God’s grace Satan is masquerading as an angel of light.

1 Timothy 3:6) says the man will fall same condemnation as the devil. It does not say Satan fell.
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It's obvious to me that satan is no longer an angel of light; though he once was. You claim that God made a being of darkness? He is called the Father of lights in whom is no variance. He never changes. He in fact, cannot create a being of darkness. Satan made himself and that is why he is an abomination. He was not created satan, but became satan. Satan just means adversary and it's against God. He made himself that way, God makes all things good.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
Dinner123 said:
It's obvious to me that satan is no longer an angel of light; though he once was. You claim that God made a being of darkness? He is called the Father of lights in whom is no variance. He never changes. He in fact, cannot create a being of darkness. Satan made himself and that is why he is an abomination. He was not created satan, but became satan. Satan just means adversary and it's against God. He made himself that way, God makes all things good.
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Better read your Bible?? Evil, calamity.. same thing.

God is God. If there is evil he created it and He controls all of it.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Here is some further detail as to how He makes use of the "evil factor":
Jdg 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. 15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

1Sa 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

1Sa 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1Sa 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house:

1Sa 19:9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2Ch 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
This is not to "blame" God for evil, but to simply clarify that evil is also a tool He uses in the grand scheme of things.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
Dinner123 said:
It's obvious to me that satan is no longer an angel of light; though he once was. You claim that God made a being of darkness? He is called the Father of lights in whom is no variance. He never changes. He in fact, cannot create a being of darkness. Satan made himself and that is why he is an abomination. He was not created satan, but became satan. Satan just means adversary and it's against God. He made himself that way, God makes all things good.
Click to expand...

Satan does not control Satan; God controls Satan. If Satan had total freewill then God has no say; God is not so mortal. Satan did not rebel; God created Satan as a liar and a murderer never an angel. There is no reference to Satan being Lucifer, this is assumed and not based on God's Word.

Satan was created by God this is a scriptural fact as a murderer and a liar and never and angel.

Religion has long taught that Satan was, in the beginning, a high and beautiful archangel in heaven.
Man says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was holy, but later fell from that estate. JESUS said of Satan, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a MURDERER (not an angel) from the BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
When he speaks a lie, he, speaks of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. (Jn. 8:44).
The verse we have just quoted states that Satan "Adobe not" in the truth. In the Greek text this verb is the imperfect tense of (ed: Greek form of steko(?)), I keep my standing, or simply, I stand, and the form is (esteken(?)) meaning that even before the fall or as far back as this person existed HE WAS NOT TRUE.
Young's literal declares this verse: "He was a manslayer from the beginning, and in the truth HE HAS NOT STOOD, because there is no truth in him. The Rotherham version reads: "He was a murderer from the beginning, and IN THE TRUTH HE STOOD NOT; because the truth was not in him."
Phillips gives the plainest and most accurate translation: "He ALWAYS WAS a MURDERER, and has NEVER DEALT WITH THE TRUTH, since the truth will have nothing to do with him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks in character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
Religion says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was perfect and sinless. But the apostle John regard to Satan's origin: "He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil SINS FROM THE BEGINNING" (I Jn. 3:8).
Jn. 3:8 W-A-S A SINNER F-R-O-M T-H-E B-E-G-I-N-N-I-N-G! Now, if we are to believe the Bible means what it says - and I believe it does - we must believe that from his very beginning SATAN WAS EVIL.
Satan cannot have two beginnings. You claim he was an angel; God's Word declares his beginning was a liar and a murder.





 
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Dinner123

Member
You say we have no choice. The Bible disagrees. Just because it is the old Testament doesn't mean it has nothing to teach you. (all scripture is profitable) As we spoke of before, meat is not for babies. But, for those who are able to discern between right and wrong; then strong meat is good food. The new Testament is the old Testament revealed. Indeed, did God sware for nothing that they would not enter into His rest because they hardened their hearts in unbelief? That is written also for our sakes upon whom the end has come. So that we may know that if we indeed do harden our hearts, we certainly will not enter into His rest.

Just read Hebrews chapter 3-4.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
Dinner123 said:
You say we have no choice. The Bible disagrees. Just because it is the old Testament doesn't mean it has nothing to teach you. (all scripture is profitable) As we spoke of before, meat is not for babies. But, for those who are able to discern between right and wrong; then strong meat is good food. The new Testament is the old Testament revealed. Indeed, did God sware for nothing that they would not enter into His rest because they hardened their hearts in unbelief? That is written also for our sakes upon whom the end has come. So that we may know that if we indeed do harden our hearts, we certainly will not enter into His rest.

Just read Hebrews chapter 3-4.
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Just be cause all scripture is profitable does not mean it pertains to carnal man saving himself.

Do not get carnal man having a freewill (which he has) mixed up with carnal man having freewill to save himself. Good and evil was part of the tree Adam ate of in the garden and part of the curse of sin and death.

But to choose spiritual matters carnal man was born in sin, a slave of sin and has no freewill to call out to God because salvation is a spiritual experience, and this is especially true if you are a UPC and believe you need the Baptism of the Spirit to be saved. Baptism of the Spirit is super spiritual.

You cannot force a carnal man to be saved; but God does.
 
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Dinner123

Member
Benoni said:
Satan does not control Satan; God controls Satan. If Satan had total freewill then God has no say; God is not so mortal. Satan did not rebel; God created Satan as a liar and a murderer never an angel. There is no reference to Satan being Lucifer, this is assumed and not based on God's Word.

Satan was created by God this is a scriptural fact as a murderer and a liar and never and angel.

Religion has long taught that Satan was, in the beginning, a high and beautiful archangel in heaven.
Man says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was holy, but later fell from that estate. JESUS said of Satan, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a MURDERER (not an angel) from the BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
When he speaks a lie, he, speaks of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. (Jn. 8:44).
The verse we have just quoted states that Satan "Adobe not" in the truth. In the Greek text this verb is the imperfect tense of (ed: Greek form of steko(?)), I keep my standing, or simply, I stand, and the form is (esteken(?)) meaning that even before the fall or as far back as this person existed HE WAS NOT TRUE.
Young's literal declares this verse: "He was a manslayer from the beginning, and in the truth HE HAS NOT STOOD, because there is no truth in him. The Rotherham version reads: "He was a murderer from the beginning, and IN THE TRUTH HE STOOD NOT; because the truth was not in him."
Phillips gives the plainest and most accurate translation: "He ALWAYS WAS a MURDERER, and has NEVER DEALT WITH THE TRUTH, since the truth will have nothing to do with him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks in character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
Religion says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was perfect and sinless. But the apostle John regard to Satan's origin: "He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil SINS FROM THE BEGINNING" (I Jn. 3:8).
Jn. 3:8 W-A-S A SINNER F-R-O-M T-H-E B-E-G-I-N-N-I-N-G! Now, if we are to believe the Bible means what it says - and I believe it does - we must believe that from his very beginning SATAN WAS EVIL.
Satan cannot have two beginnings. You claim he was an angel; God's Word declares his beginning was a liar and a murder.
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To be a murderer, you must murder or atleast conceive murderous hatred in your heart. That "From the beginning" is about the beginnings of all things for example Genesis: the beginning. I think it is possibly an allusion to Cain who was influenced by satan. Maybe also the serpent that really was responsible for the existence of death by tempting Eve. It says he stood not in the truth; so then he departed from the truth at some point. because he fell from it.

I know this about God; and why your ideas don't make sense. God doesn't hate anything that He has created Himself. Not even satan's soul. Yet, there is nothing God hates more than the ways of satan. So, tell me how God could make a being He hates so much?

If satan doesn't fall into this category who does?
16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


And is satan's heart currently beautiful to God?
Ecclesiastes 3:11
11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.



1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
Dinner123 said:
To be a murderer, you must murder or atleast conceive murderous hatred in your heart. That "From the beginning" is about the beginnings of all things for example Genesis: the beginning. I think it is possibly an allusion to Cain who was influenced by satan. Maybe also the serpent that really was responsible for the existence of death by tempting Eve. It says he stood not in the truth; so then he departed from the truth at some point. because he fell from it.

I know this about God; and why your ideas don't make sense. God doesn't hate anything that He has created Himself. Not even satan's soul. Yet, there is nothing God hates more than the ways of satan. So, tell me how God could make a being He hates so much?

If satan doesn't fall into this category who does?
16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


And is satan's heart currently beautiful to God?
Ecclesiastes 3:11
11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.



1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
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First of all God caused man to fall not Adam or Satan. (talk about a chunk of meat in that statement)



SATAN'S ORIGIN and character of DARKNESS was spoken of by Jesus not my opinion; that he was never a shining angel of light. He made it clear that he was a murderer from THE BEGINNING and concluded His statement by saying, "...And in the truth HE HAS NOT STOOD." (Jn. 8:44;

Diaglott, Westcott & Hort, and Marshall's Interlinear Grk/Eng N.T.). If he has NEVER STOOD IN THE LIGHT OF THE TRUTH, so if he has never stood fo the light of the truth how can Satan be a light bearer??????

Also, if he "...HAS BEEN SINNING FROM THE BEGINNING," as John recorded (I Jn. 3:8, Diaglott), there is no honest way we can say Satan was ever a glorious, shining, angel of light with the name of Lucifer. If this be true, how then, can Isa. 14:12 be speaking of Satan? It is not.

When God speaks of "the beginning" He is speaking of the ORIGINATING POINT of the subject in question. It is written of Jesus when He had turned water into wine, "THIS BEGINNING of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth His glory; and His disciples believed on Him" (Jn. 2:11). This means, simply, that the miraculous aspect of the ministry of Jesus Christ had as its originating point this miracle of the water turned into wine. He had performed no miracles before this time, but from this day forth many more were to follow. This, so far as His miracles were concerned, was "the beginning." Thus we may clearly see that if something is manifested in a certain form "from the beginning" that means that from the time it was first formed, established, and came into being it has been in that condition.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
I do not think God cares about Satan's soul, I see Satan nothing but a tool in thre Hands of a mighty God and when God is done with Satan; He is done
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
"No, we need not worry about our ignorance of things. Our only concern should be that when God does send us light that we receive it, for if we reject it, the light we have becomes darkness and we can understand nothing.

The moment the Spirit of God begins to shed light on a truth, it is time to begin to ask Him to instruct us in it. Do not submit God's revelation to the criticism of some dead church member or preacher, for they like the birds of the air will steal away the seed of the truth before it has a chance to sprout or take root within you.
We are looking for the unveiling of the sons of God.
We are looking for the revelation of Jesus Christ.
The revelation will reveal what is hidden.
The unveiling will reveal what has been kept veiled.
As the lightning flashes forth from inky clouds, so the manifestation will disclose that which has been hidden in darkness. 'Let us therefore fear, lest a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.'" – George Hawtin
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Shiranui117 said:
But what's the point of Satan at all, if he'll never ever be able to steal even one soul? It's a test which we cannot possibly fail, because God will pass us no matter what.
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What's the point of God, if Satan can thwart his will?

Just as damning other people to Hell is a sin, deciding that everyone ever will be saved is a sin. The fact is, we don't know how God will judge. We can hope that He will save all, but that depends on the heart of the person, and we cannot say for sure how the Judgement will go down. It's very dangerous to assume who will be saved and who will not, and it is very dangerous to assume how many will be saved and how many will not.
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But isn't this just a logical extension from realizing that eternal damnation us bad while having faith that God is good?
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
What's the point of God, if Satan can thwart his will?
Click to expand...

This is so true.


[/quote]But isn't this just a logical extension from realizing that eternal damnation us bad while having faith that God is good? [/quote]

God is not spelled "good" (play on words)

It always amazes me that the people who believe God is good, also believ in eteranl damnation?????
 
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Dinner123

Member
Benoni said:
I do not think God cares about Satan's soul, I see Satan nothing but a tool in thre Hands of a mighty God and when God is done with Satan; He is done
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That's inaccurate. God did care, and God made all things beautiful in it's time. That means once, who we now know as satan was beautiful to God. Sounds like the same creature that was lifted up in vanity because of his beauty to me.

Also notice in the book of Job satan appears among the sons of God. He was once one of the sons of God.
 
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Dinner123

Member
Benoni said:
This is so true.


But isn't this just a logical extension from realizing that eternal damnation us bad while having faith that God is good?

God is not spelled "good" (play on words)

It always amazes me that the people who believe God is good, also believ in eteranl damnation?????
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Jesus said God was good. Satan cannot thwart God's will. If anyone has read the Silmarillion they can know how that works. No matter how hard satan tries to mess things up, God has it under control and predicted satan would do it, and has incorporated it into His plan since before the world was. Satan is no match for God. No way you can out smart someone who knew what you would do before you ever existed.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
Dinner123 said:
That's inaccurate. God did care, and God made all things beautiful in it's time. That means once, who we now know as satan was beautiful to God. Sounds like the same creature that was lifted up in vanity because of his beauty to me.

Also notice in the book of Job satan appears among the sons of God. He was once one of the sons of God.
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Where in Job did Satan appear to be a son of God? Satan was a liar and a murderer from His beginning, manslayer. Thars good?








Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNING and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..






 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
Dinner123 said:
Jesus said God was good. Satan cannot thwart God's will. If anyone has read the Silmarillion they'll know how that works. No matter how hard satan tries to mess things up, God has it under control and predicted satan would do it, and has incorporated it into His plan since before the world was. Satan is no match for God. No way you can out smart someone who knew what you would do before you ever existed.
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Satan is part of God's creation; and may be the god of the earth but He is not the God of the earth. Agreed
 
D

Dinner123

Member
Benoni said:
Where in Job did Satan appear to be a son of God? Satan was a liar and a murderer from His beginning, manslayer. Thars good?








Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNINGand abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING.For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..
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he is not a son of God in Job. He appears among them though because he once was one. As I said before the beginning could easily mean Genesis or pre-Genesis time.
 
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