Are you saying that we no longer are required to repent? The fact that He died for our sins in no way implies that reprentence is no longer required of us. Or do you disagree?dawny0826 said:It symbolized repentance for sins.
When Christ was living, water baptism cleansed an individual of their sins...why?
Because Christ had yet to die for our sins.
The last thing, the very last thing Jesus said to His Apostles before He ascended to His Father was, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
He had previously taught that not one, but two, kinds of baptism were required for salvation: He was quite specific about that when He said, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
His followers continued to baptize people by water after He died. They knew Jesus personally. Don't you think they would have understood that water baptism was no longer required of Christ's followers if that was the case?
Besides, when you get right down to it, water baptism never has actually cleansed a person of his sins. Only the Atonement of Christ truly cleanses. I'm sure we agree on that.
The fact remains that Jesus said we must be baptized by both water and the spirit. You are simply ignoring that very clearly stated fact.Who baptized Christ?
John the Baptist...
And what did John the Baptist say about baptism?
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentence, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Matthew 3:11
While Christ was living, WATER baptism was imperative for the forgiveness...the washing away, if you will, of sins...however, with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ...we are baptised in fire...THE HOLY SPIRIT. It's the blood of Christ that washes our sins clean...not the symbolic water baptism.
Yes, belief in Christ is absolutely essential. But so is obedience to His commandments. Would you like me to post a few scriptures that teach this, or can we agree on that point?Further, John 3:16...the very HEART of Christianity states CLEARLY that it is with BELIEF in Christ Jesus that we are granted eternal life...BELIEF...
When you BELIEVE in Christ...when you ACCEPT Christ's sacrifice...you are THEN washed clean of your sins and receive what?
The Holy Spirit.
One does not receive the Holy Ghost simply by believing in Christ. It is a gift received by the laying on of hands (see Acts 8:18-19). This takes place after baptism by water.
And I guess that somewhere along the line He said, "And after I die, you must only believe. Baptism will no longer be required of you." Hmmm, I can't recall ever seeing that taught.Jesus Christ Himself tells us...in Mark 16:16...
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved: but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Christ was living at this time. Therefore, at this point in time...water baptism was crucial for the purpose of forgiveness.
Yes, I can see that. But several facts remain, and I am not comfortable simply pretending that they dont:I"m inclined to believe that our interpretation of this verse NOW...since Christ has died for sins and has ascended into Heaven...is that the baptism referred to in this verse refers to the SPIRITUAL baptism and NOT the water baptism.
1. Jesus said we must be born of water and the spirit both. How can you get around this?
2. He was baptized himself. Surely it was not for the remission of sins, so it had to be for some other reason. What do you think that reason was?
3. He told his Apostles to continue to baptize those who would accept His gospel in the future. Why do you think he did so?
4. Belief is something that is between a person and God. If all a person had to do to receive the Holy Spirit was to believe in Christ, what do you think Jesus meant when He told His disciples to go into all the world and to baptize those who would accept His gospel?
I guess I'm going to have to provide you with a few verses that teach the need for obedience in addition to belief. But it's getting late. I'll do that tomorrow.We're not told in John 3:16 that we must believe inChrist and then be submersed in water for our sins...we're told that belief in Christ guarantees our salvation.
Since you believe this so strongly, would you please post a few verses that teach that by believing in Christ, we are automatically baptized in the Holy Spirit, and that this does not require that someone perform the baptism?And what happens when we believe in Christ? We are baptized in the Holy Spirit...by receiving the indwelling.
Looking forward to your reply and to a good experience for all of us.
Squirt