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Vows

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Hindus work on discipline. At least this is the tradition. One way we do this is to take vows. They can be public, private, temporary, or permanent (lifetime).

Taking a vow is a declaration. In the phrase 'Declaration of Independence" there is much power. We solemnly DECLARE. So vows are like that.

The vow of marriage, the vow of ahimsa, the vow of celibacy for monks, there are many. These ones are lifetime. Temporary ones are like fasting for a week during a certain festival.

Personally, I see strength in the custom. But maybe that's just me. Any thoughts?
 

Fireside_Hindu

Jai Lakshmi Maa
I think vows serve as reminders of our faith and provide us with a sense of discipline. So I think they are very positive.

I was speaking to a woman at a party the other night. We were discussing religious rituals and traditions. She mentioned that she just didn't understand rituals and that she feels fine living without them. I basically said, 'good for you. I guess that simplifies things.'

But I actually enjoy rituals and vows. I think they help pull me back when I get caught up in the hustle and bustle of things.

:camp:
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram vinayaka ji :namaste

Hindus work on discipline. At least this is the tradition. One way we do this is to take vows. They can be public, private, temporary, or permanent (lifetime). ..........
Personally, I see strength in the custom.

my feelings entirely vows are an important part of self dicipline and devotion .

But maybe that's just me. Any thoughts?

for me it is a good system once vowed , there is no going back . ....... like samskara's vows are stages on ones spiritual path and constitute a form of clensing .
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
for me it is a good system once vowed , there is no going back . ....... like samskara's vows are stages on ones spiritual path and constitute a form of clensing .

Oh we can go back, but it's not without it's consequences. People get divorced, lose interest, find something better, etc. But it's certainly not recommended. :)
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Oh we can go back, but it's not without it's consequences. People get divorced, lose interest, find something better, etc. But it's certainly not recommended. :)


our gurus favorite line is '' No Sepperation No Divorce '' so when we married he said ''do you know what I will expect from you ? we look at each other and burst out laughing , ''...No sepperation No divoece maharaj ji '' ......''acha '' then he breaks out in a big smile ..''then I dont have to talk to you'' ....so then he over saw our wedding and he was very happy , it was the first devotees wedding in the temple so I count that as an extreme blessing , so I personaly take pride not to behave like an idiot , and never to dissapoint him . .......we dont do arguing we do our dharma , ...it makes things very simple , we arnt allowed to argue we are only allowed to get on with it . which means any problem ... resolve it ... I can highly recomend it .....one hint of an argument from my other half ...I just remind him of his vows .....no going back , ... only forward ... it is possible if one puts their mind to it :yes:
 

NobodyYouKnow

Misanthropist
Hindus work on discipline. At least this is the tradition. One way we do this is to take vows. They can be public, private, temporary, or permanent (lifetime).

Taking a vow is a declaration. In the phrase 'Declaration of Independence" there is much power. We solemnly DECLARE. So vows are like that.

The vow of marriage, the vow of ahimsa, the vow of celibacy for monks, there are many. These ones are lifetime. Temporary ones are like fasting for a week during a certain festival.

Personally, I see strength in the custom. But maybe that's just me. Any thoughts?
Namaste, Vinayaka.

For me, taking a vow is like a personal promise, in that you are bound by them and under them.

At the moment, I am an 'informal' sannyasin, but I am still prone to the occasional adharmic practice - through habit mostly.

I feel that if I took a vow, it would make everything more concrete...more binding for me and I would remember that I am a sannyasin, I am merely not acting like one. It does give a sense of 'personal strength'.

I am thinking about returning to Bali later on this year to take Pashupati initiation into Yellow Bamboo (I should have done that years ago).

I'm also thinking about taking full sannyasa, but I need to find somebody who can do that the 'proper way' outside India (in Australia).

Om Namah Shivay.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
At least this is the tradition.

V, I don't mean to argue, but I noticed that you speak a lot about "tradition" and/or "custom". But, a lot of the things that Shaiva-s do, today, aren't really "traditional" in the objective sense, since objectively...for it to be traditional, it would have to be tied back to the Vedas and the BrAhmaNas. So, in a sense, when you persistently stress about "tradition", it would be better to state the orientation of the subjective tradition that you are referencing, instead. Heck, most of the things that Hindus do today aren't really "traditional" nor "Vedic"...they are Smritic in origin. Very few are actual traditionalists. But, to merely mention this fact, those very few are quickly, and prematurely, labelled as purists - which is most of the times, as per my experience, used in a derogatory manner.

Coming back on track: I think it would be appropriate to mention what you mean by "tradition", because it can be subjective. Because, you can be the most non-violent Hindu, the best vegetarian, the daily temple attendee, etc......and, still never be "traditional" in the eyes of other Hindu groups that are, in a very pristine sense, traditionally traditional. I'm not saying that you aren't "traditional". You are very much traditional and custom-oriented. I do not doubt this of you. But, I do want to know what you mean by "tradition", because, for example, to be disciplined and have vows can be seen as "traditional", but it's painting the stroke with a wide brush. And, someone who may be more "traditional", wouldn't want someone else, who also identifies as "traditional", to objectively stress various notions as traditional, when Traditional Person A doesn't see nor identifies with the stressing of Traditional Person B in the self-objective manner that the latter person does, when the stressing of that "tradition" is subjective.
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
मैत्रावरुणिः;3601766 said:
Coming back on track: I think it would be appropriate to mention what you mean by "tradition", because it can be subjective.

Generally speaking, I just mean coming from a long standing sampradaya ... one that's been around for say, basically unchanged for 1000 years or so, in some form or another. Mainly it is a means of contrasting it to some of the more modern or universalist takes that have happened within the last 100 years or so.

Not much more to it than that. So wearing a sari or suit is traditional whereas blue jeans and a t-shirt isn't.

But go ahead, start a thread on 'What, really is tradition?" if you like. :)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
What is tradition? A thing which people start doing, find it useful, and keep doing it. But traditions change over time. So, do not expect the traditions of the Vedic time to be current today. In Vedas, they had house-fire to which they prayed five times a day. And then, basically, today's Hinduism is not Vedic religion. It is indigenous beliefs modified by the interaction with Aryans. Nothing bars a tradition to go out of favour (sati for example) and new tradition to come up. Yuga-dharma, you know. Nobody gives a second thought about going to a foreign country today, the Jaipur King made four huge silver vassels to take water from River Ganges to London, when he went for Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee celebrations so as not to get polluted in a foreign land.

images
 
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Me Myself

Back to my username
I immidiately remember mahabharatta and how viws created a lot of problems.

My association of vows + hinduism/hindustory = things are going to #%^ royally pretty soon.

Not saying they are bad, but ey are usually a problem in e hindu stories I ve heard and seen :D
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
.. we dont do arguing we do our dharma, ..
We argue nearly every hour every day and it has been like that for 46 years, of course, no separation, no divorce. It is so nice. We do our dharma, and she does it exceptionally well. Excellent girl. :D
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I immidiately remember mahabharatta and how viws created a lot of problems.

My association of vows + hinduism/hindustory = things are going to #%^ royally pretty soon.

Not saying they are bad, but ey are usually a problem in e hindu stories I ve heard and seen :D
Any example?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Any example?

The first that comes to mind is someone (forgot the name by now) vowed to serve whoever is on the throne, and that made him serve dritirashtra on things he knew were wrong. I think his name was bishma but am not sure...



There were a buuuuuuunch more but I dont remember them. In some stories they have to do with the promise of giving "any boon" .

It was so that krishan even said that had so many in their family not made so many vows they wouldnt be in the kind of troubles they are. (The mahabharat story)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The first that comes to mind is someone (forgot the name by now) vowed to serve whoever is on the throne, and that made him serve Dhritarashtra on things he knew were wrong. I think his name was Bhishma but am not sure...

There were a bunch more but I don't remember them. In some stories they have to do with the promise of giving "any boon".

It was so that Krishna even said that had so many in their family not made so many vows they wouldn't be in the kind of troubles they are. (The Mahabharata story)
You are very correct. Bhishma is a very poignant story of Mahabharata, something perhaps like Hector in the Illiad. He had to suffer because of others. Took the above vow to let his father, Shantanu, marry the woman of his choice, Satyavati. Had to die because of a woman, he could not marry because of his first vow.

Rama's father, King Dasaratha, also had to suffer because of a vow he had given to one of his queens, Kaikeyi, and had to send Rama to a 14 year exile.

Then the boons. Shiva was so careless with them. He gave the boon to Bhasmasura that all things that he placed his hand on would go up in flames. One should be careful with vows and boons. :)
 
Vow, or Vrata, is a beautiful concept in Hinduism. It is like the Durva grass, among all florae. It is like a flower, among all natural gifts. It is like a lotus, among all flowers. It is something that is noble inside us. It is something that an artist aspires to live for, and also something a soldier wants to die for.

Let our Vrata-s be the Diksha given to us by our very own ISTa Devatā, so that the Vrata, difficult or not, becomes our sahaja Vrata.

We can easily see the contrast in the Mahabharata: for Yudhisthira it was a sahaja Vrata, that had the blessings of Krishna, while for Bhisma it was not. Even then, the power of Vrata freed Bhisma, who fought against Krishna in the Great War, in the end.
 
The Sanskrit behind Vrata is also worth mentioning. We are told Vrata has the root vṛi. If we see vṛi=> va + ṛi, that is, as a derived root, then we have
va + ṛta => vrata
(not in a sandhi sense, because vrata has to be made from vṛi, not ṛta).

Now, the question is: what does the prefix "va" signifies? Because as we know, a prefix, such as "a" can change a word's meaning drastically, e.g.
diti = division
a + diti = aditi = unity

So coming to "va" we have:
gyAna = subjective knowledge (the knowledge within), Adhyatma.
vigyAna = objective knowledge (the knowledge without), science.

So we can say:
ṛta = inner consistency/ harmony
vrata = observed consistency/ harmony

like:
ṛddhi = inner prosperity
vṛddhi = outer prosperity, increase.


Vedic gods Mitra, Varuna (also from vṛi), DakshiNA and Daksha are the preserver gods of Ṛta (a very key word of Veda on which many papers have been written to date).

Just as gyAna is the basis for vigyAna, similarly, for sahaja vrata, ṛta is the basis.
 
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