outhouse
Atheistically
straw man?
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Genesis is Metaphorical for goodness sakes!
- Thread starter Brickjectivity
- Start date
straw man?
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
lol thanks yeah that's what I meant
outhouse
Atheistically
This is from the pope
Pope Francis Says Right-Wing Christians Have An Illness
In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid. And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought… For this reason Jesus said to them: ‘You have taken away the key of knowledge.’ The knowledge of Jesus is transformed into an ideological and also moralistic knowledge, because these close the door with many requirements. The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens, ideology chases away the people, distances, distances the people and distances of the Church of the people. But it is a serious illness, this of ideological Christians. It is an illness, but it is not new, eh
Pope Francis Says Right-Wing Christians Have An Illness
In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid. And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought… For this reason Jesus said to them: ‘You have taken away the key of knowledge.’ The knowledge of Jesus is transformed into an ideological and also moralistic knowledge, because these close the door with many requirements. The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens, ideology chases away the people, distances, distances the people and distances of the Church of the people. But it is a serious illness, this of ideological Christians. It is an illness, but it is not new, eh
Its no wonder you have so many post, you have nothing to say
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
As long as I maintain a polite attitude to those I am talking to, I have no issue if you think this.
If I do not agree with you, I suppose it makes sense that I have nothing to say.
Thank you for telling me that.
outhouse
Atheistically
It is so frustrating to deal with you its like youre playing a game with these scriptures. You cannot commit to an answer when it comes to the sheep and goats passage in Matthew 25 but then you come up with this rock hard commitment to the context when it comes to Proverbs 25:2? Then you admit thats its ok to go out of context in the Book of Romans and Psalms when it comes to Adam.
Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
I see no reason to go outside the verse for Proverbs 25:2, it is speaking of Gods glory which something that does not change, was, is and will be to come.
If it was speaking of something like the Kings Army was concealed, or perhaps the royal treasure was concealed then you would have a point
But it is speaking of the Glory of God being concealed. So this passage is no different then the above mention reference to Adam, and the context of the verse stands on its own merit
Do you have a problem with God hiding His deep Word? Or what is your issue here?
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
How is it going out of context when Psalms and Romans speaks of Adam? The story of Adam is known, so when they use Adam it is a framing device. Context does not mean you can't use other stories, but the stories become framed by the context of that verse. Someone who is Christian and someone who is Jewish will get a different understanding of the usage of Adam BASED ON THE CONTEXT OF THE CHAPTER Why would I talk about Matthew 25 when you quoted the wrong verse? You meant to quote Matthew 11:25 and when I googled that verse it's not the first time you've quoted the wrong one.
What relationship are you trying to bring between Matthew 25 and Proverbs 25? I can see the attempt at a relationship between Matthew 11:25 because they both use the word hidden.
However what context is hidden being used? Is the usage of hidden by Jesus in Matthew 11:25 the same as the usage of Hidden as Proverbs 25? I think Proverbs 25 is talking more about royalty and the seeking of Gods Glory as an exploration and conquest of what kings have before them.
Matthew 11:25 is speaking of the hiding from the wise and revealing to the childlike, but what is it talking about? Well given what has occurred in the chapter (Jesus performing Miracles and the towns not repenting), I would say the author of Matthew is pointing out that Jesus is the Son of God but the towns could not see this because God had hidden it from them.
I see two different context usage of the word hidden used to frame the verse.
I will not discuss "Sheep and Goats" with you because that was never what you quoted in the first place. I will focus on what we were originally talking about, when that is complete then we can move to talk about sheep and goats. If that is what you wanted to discuss prior then it would have done you well to admit that when you quoted Matthew 25:25-26 as "25 At that time Jesus said, I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do." it was incorrect.
About post #42, sorry I didn't mean any disrespect for you. I was objecting, however.Benoni said:
As for me I also disagree here about Proverbs 25. Each verse is not supposed to be read by itself in this chapter, but the verses 1 through 22 are related. (If God were going to just conceal things at random it would not make a lot of sense, and its likely that there is a better translation for the passage in question.) I suggest it is part of a series of advice about how to handle corrupt officials in verses 1 through 22, and it is solid advice. A corrupt official is a terrible thing and getting the king to see their corruption requires caution, tact and wisdom. First, you don't just go spilling your guts to the king or lord over you. Don't go to court without evidence, because you will just be found guilty of spreading rumors. For God's glory, conceal the matter for the time being. If you go shooting your mouth off prematurely, then God won't be glorified. Let the king find out, and then your witness will be put to use.
InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
Sorry to jump in. I am not sure how we can conclude that Proverbs 25:2 is not supposed to be read by itself. I think that verse is generally applicable to many things, including those mentioned in 1-22, but it is generally a true statement. I understand it to mean, as "Truth" is the most precious thing, therefore we must search for it to find it. It is like Lover and Beloved. The Beloved is God, and the true lover must search for the Beloved. Therefore the All-mighty has placed secrets about Himself, but only those who are sincerely searching would find Him. For God is worthy to be searched, hence it is God's glory to be searched, and it is our houner to search Him.
I am done with trying to show you anything about Matthew 25 because you cannot commit to what a goat is? You have danced around this question with far too many posts for me to care to share with you initially what I had in mind; obviously you are not seeking anything outside your understanding
So you are saying God's glory is not known in the Bible?
How you lower God's glory to such low status amazes me? Do you have any idea what God's glory is??
Amen.
Here is something about how God hides things I find amazing
In the wilderness the Children of Israel had to gather fresh new manna every day. If they didnt they soon learned yesterdays manna stunk. Today we as Christians must understand we must gather fresh new manna (spiritual food/food from God) daily. If all we gather is yesterdays manna (someones old wine skin/ religious traditions/dogmas/creeds) it stinks.
Manna means what is it or as Strongs Concordance will point out it also includes what, how, when and why. You see the deeper you dig in to Gods Word you are never satisfied; but at the same time very satisfied.
Manna has been known as many thing and a few examples would be
Bread of God,
Corn from heaven,
angel food,
and bread of the mighty.
Just like the Word of God; our manna we eat today is spiritual.
Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit
says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of
the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new
name written on it, known only to him who receives it.
I had a brother once tell me there were no mysteries in the Bible. This man was no youngster as a Christian. The word mystery is written over 20 times in the New Testament and means sacred secret.
Some believe God would not hide things from His children; but is so foolish God Himself is not seen with the natural eye; God ways are higher then our ways.
In the Tabernacle or Temple was the Shew Bread which was in the Holy Place; this bread was for all who entered in to receive it.
But in the Ark of the Covenant was manna. This manna was hidden from the view of the Children of Israel and is an awesome example of the hidden manna mentioned in the verse above. But this manna had another characteristic about it; it did not perish like the manna in the wilderness.
Exodus 16
19And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.20Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.21And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
You see Gods Word is the same way; there is a carnal Word and there is a spiritual Word. What appears on the surface or easy to eat is carnal. Just like there is meat of the Word as well as meat. Meat requires chewing to digest; where milk goes right down.
1 Cor 2:9-16
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; (not man and his religion) comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Just like there is a thirty, sixty one hundred fold God has levels of spiritual understanding. and that which is natural but God with His Word is showing us how to approach His Word and what doctrine or bias out there can direct us better then those hidden mysteries, and the hidden manna seems a bit higher then what is literal.
And I will add, IN the Ark of the Covenant was HIDDEN manna, the Ark speaks of God's glory.
Hidden manna/glory of God to conceal
Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
Hidden manna/glory of God to conceal
Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit
says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of
the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new
name written on it, known only to him who receives it.
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
You never asked the question. You still refuse to admit that you quoted the wrong verse of Matthew, I have shown you this several times. And now you cast judgement because you are so focused on your wisdom. You are acting like those Jesus spoke of in Matthew 11:25.
If you had something to share you should have made it clear but you refused instead going around to play games, which I had not expected from you.
Thank you for insulting my character I will no longer be communicating with you from now on.
I don't see how I've lowered glory to any particular status. Glory is glory. Proverbs is a book about wisdom and wise choices. It isn't a book about God hiding secrets from people. Its chock full of advice, and this chapter seems to be about what to do when there is a corrupt official.Benoni said:
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God's glory reaches beyond the book of proverbs. In the Bible glory is FAR more than just glory; glory speaks of God's presence in the Holy of Holies.
This verse addressed God's glory not some earthy king.
In Exodus, chapters 33 and 34 when I was arrested by what Moses said, "I beseech thee, shew me thy glory." Gods answer to Moses was: "I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee, and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy." He would have to stand upon a Rock by Him and He would hide him in the cliff of the Rock and cover him while He passed by. For, said He, "Thou canst not see My face: for there shall no man see Me, and live."
I am sure you are aware when they carried the Ark of the Covenant they carried with long poles because it was a death sentence if you touched the ark.
Benoni, I'm still not sure why you are arguing in post 134. There are many verses that show that people can glorify God through their actions. Even the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, glorifies God. He was a king who became interested in Daniel's God. Daniel specifically benefited from the advice in this proverb, as he was surrounded by corrupt officials. Every time children hear the story of Daniel they might wonder why he didn't go directly to the king and complain about his corrupt co-workers. After all he had higher status than them. Instead he waited, and he prayed, and this worked in the end for the glory of God.