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Genesis is Metaphorical for goodness sakes!

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Benoni

Well-Known Member
1 Kings 19:11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:
12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
 
greentwiga

greentwiga

Active Member
There is no problem with a story being literally true and having an allegorical component. I am also sure that there were many interesting things that happened to the people that lived between Adam and Noah. God didn't preserve their stories because there was no spiritual lessons in them. I do agree that the most important thing in the story of Eden was the spiritual lessons.

Never-the-less, the story is surprisingly historically accurate. Take the location. It was somewhere between the Tigris and Euphrates, on a high point. It was also where wild figs grew. If you look at the range of wild figs and only where they grew between the Tigris and Euphrates, you are left with a small area that only includes one high point, the mountain Karacadag.

It was also was the point where wheat was domesticated. Scientists, using DNA analysis have proven wheat was domesticated at Mt Karacadag.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
Matthew 13
13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

13:14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive;

13:15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.'

13:16 "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;​
​
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
greentwiga said:
I do agree that the most important thing in the story of Eden was the spiritual lessons.

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So what you are saying is the most important thing is the carnal lesson? Is that not the opposite of spiritual? God is a spirit and His Word is spirit and truth not carnal and not intellectual
 
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FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Benoni said:
Quite a vague comment? Here some more verses that are pretty cool


Matt 25:25-26 (MSG) Abruptly Jesus broke into prayer: "Thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth. You've concealed your ways from sophisticates and know-it-alls, but spelled them out clearly to ordinary people. Yes, Father, that's the way you like to work."

Matt 25:25-26 (KJV) 25At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Matt 25:25-26 (NLT) 25 At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike.
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No I'm saying you have to read the entire chapter. Quoting one verse does not really give you a good idea of what the verse is talking about. Following verses also mention the heart of kings are unsearchable. What is the relationship with with verse 2?
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
FranklinMichaelV.3 said:
No I'm saying you have to read the entire chapter. Quoting one verse does not really give you a good idea of what the verse is talking about. Following verses also mention the heart of kings are unsearchable. What is the relationship with with verse 2?
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This can be true at times, context can be helpful, but other times it is not true. Context of the surrounding verses is good; but this is not the law, it is a verse and the meaning is truth. I just showed you two other verses that agreed with this verse and one of them I gave you three translations. I have plenty of other verses if you like.

Do you have a problem with God hiding His glory? God always hides His glory look at the Ark of the Covenant
 
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FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Benoni said:
This can be true at times, context can be helpful, but other times it is not true. Context of the surrounding verses is good; but this is not the law, it is a verse and the meaning is truth. I just showed you two other verses that agreed with this verse and one of them I gave you three translations. I have plenty of other verses if you like.

Do you have a problem with God hiding His glory? God always hides His glory look at the Ark of the Covenant
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No the point is you're quoting proverbs a wisdom book. It's not talking about Laws, it's using imagery and poetry to convey moral and wisdom based lessons. I find that makes it extremely important for context. I'm sure you can find connections and explanations, it does not necessarily mean one actually exists.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
FranklinMichaelV.3 said:
No the point is you're quoting proverbs a wisdom book. It's not talking about Laws, it's using imagery and poetry to convey moral and wisdom based lessons. I find that makes it extremely important for context. I'm sure you can find connections and explanations, it does not necessarily mean one actually exists.
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You did not answer my question? Do you have a problem with god hiding His glory?

You are also ignoring the other verses I quoted? You act like context is the only way to see truth?
 
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FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Benoni said:
You did not answer my question? Do you have a problem with god hiding His glory?

You are also ignoring the other verses I quoted? You act like context is the only way to see truth?
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I'm saying that you are using a verse that may not actually convey the message you wish it too.

Context is the only way to find the truth, if you take the truth out of its context it is no longer the truth, is it?

I ignored the verses cause I don't think you quoted the right chapter.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
FranklinMichaelV.3 said:
I'm saying that you are using a verse that may not actually convey the message you wish it too.

Context is the only way to find the truth, if you take the truth out of its context it is no longer the truth, is it?

I ignored the verses cause I don't think you quoted the right chapter.
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I disagree, there are things written about in Psalms and Romans that have to do with Adams fall. The context is what they say not the order they are in.

Please I just want you to address this vers in Matthew I quoted to show you how God hides things.
 
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FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Benoni said:
I disagree, there are things written about in Psalms and Romans that have to do with Adams fall. The context is what they say not the order they are in.

Please I just want you to address this vers in Matthew I quoted to show you how God hides things.
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Except I looked up that chapter and it's not the correct quotes.

Matthew 25 NKJV - The Parable of the Wise and Foolish - Bible Gateway

Why would they not talk about Adams fall? It is Jewish Literature and Genesis is part of it.

However the context of the chapter is important because that is how you will get the truth. Taking it out of the context is applicable for learning but it does not mean that it is true.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
FranklinMichaelV.3 said:
Except I looked up that chapter and it's not the correct quotes.

Matthew 25 NKJV - The Parable of the Wise and Foolish - Bible Gateway

Why would they not talk about Adams fall? It is Jewish Literature and Genesis is part of it.

However the context of the chapter is important because that is how you will get the truth. Taking it out of the context is applicable for learning but it does not mean that it is true.
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Are you afraid to answer my question about Matt. 25? Please tell me what it means?

Romans is not? Because Psalms is not in Genesis so there is no context as you claim??? You claim context is everything about truth??
 
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FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Benoni said:
Are you afraid to answer my question about Matt. 25? Please tell me what it means?

Romans is not? Because Psalms is not in Genesis so there is no context as you claim??? You claim context is everything about truth??
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Maybe I'm not communicating clearly?

The Verses you quoted Matthew 25: 25-26 are incorrect. That is not what the verses say. It's actually the parable of the talents...not what you had quoted. So there's no fear in answering, it's just flat out incorrect on your part.

I don't think you understand what I mean by context. A mentioning of the story of Adam is an interwoven part of the Jewish Tradition. Having it mentioned in other parts is not an issue of context, it works as a framing device to a story that they would understand. So anyone who knows the story of Adam from Genesis would understand the context that Adam is being used in whatever verse that is being quoted. But it will still be in context of what that verse is saying.

Your quoting of Proverbs is fine, but the context of the verse is extremely important in light of the chapter, because it isn't clear if it is saying that the matter of God is to hide things on purpose from people and for kings to find or if just as God hides things Kings hide things. Hence why I think you should have the entire chapter, because it clears things up.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
FranklinMichaelV.3 said:
Maybe I'm not communicating clearly?

The Verses you quoted Matthew 25: 25-26 are incorrect. That is not what the verses say. It's actually the parable of the talents...not what you had quoted. So there's no fear in answering, it's just flat out incorrect on your part.

I don't think you understand what I mean by context. A mentioning of the story of Adam is an interwoven part of the Jewish Tradition. Having it mentioned in other parts is not an issue of context, it works as a framing device to a story that they would understand. So anyone who knows the story of Adam from Genesis would understand the context that Adam is being used in whatever verse that is being quoted. But it will still be in context of what that verse is saying.

Your quoting of Proverbs is fine, but the context of the verse is extremely important in light of the chapter, because it isn't clear if it is saying that the matter of God is to hide things on purpose from people and for kings to find or if just as God hides things Kings hide things. Hence why I think you should have the entire chapter, because it clears things up.
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Seeing you refuse to answer about my question of the sheep and goat; I cannot show you my example of how God hides his deep Word. It is no wonder you cannot see God hiding his deep truth you cannot even answer my simple question?
Can you even tell me what God’s glory is or give me some example?
 
B

Benoni

Well-Known Member
FranklinMichaelV.3 said:
Maybe I'm not communicating clearly?

.

Your quoting of Proverbs is fine, but the context of the verse is extremely important in light of the chapter, because it isn't clear if it is saying that the matter of God is to hide things on purpose from people and for kings to find or if just as God hides things Kings hide things. Hence why I think you should have the entire chapter, because it clears things up.
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You are correct, this makes no sence????
 
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FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Benoni said:
You are correct, this makes no sence????
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I guess the best way to explain it is that you are quoting a verse that doesn't exist in the chapter you posted. Matthew 25 does not say what you quoted it to say.

The proverbs verse seems to point out that seeking wisdom is what is important. Though since it mentions kings it could be referring to the conquests and journys that kings go out and about to. But it doesn't mean that God is concealing all types of truths, or if anything (if you want to go outside of the context of proverbs and the verse) one can take it to mean that it is our duty to seek the truth of what God has in nature itself.
 
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FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
psychoslice said:
Sad isn't it ?.
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Well I mean modern science is only like what? 100 years old? Our understanding of the universe is only like what 70-80 years old? My Grandmother was around to see when the first theories about things like the big bang were posited. And Evolutionary evidence in terms of understandings of DNA didn't really kick off until what the 50s?

I'm not at all surprised people still take it literally, especially when you can't educate a good percentage of the world.
 
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