• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Islam without hadith

safdar.dushantappeh

simpleislam.weebly.com
Bukhari was compiled sometime after the Holy Prophet Muhammad(saw). But that is not to say that he was not aware of it-remember he was a Prophet of Allah and it is possible that Allah could have revealed this to him. However, this is not my point- even if it was revealed to him and then recorded as a Hadith, in Quranists perspective this still should have been rejected. In other words Quranists should never be sure of whether this knowledge was revealed to Holy Prophet Muhammad(saw)- that's why I asked you, "how do you know?" I would still be interested to know the answer.
My two cents:

  1. As Quran says: "Say, [O Muhammad], I do not tell you that I have the depositories [containing the provision] of Allah or that I know the unseen, nor ...". So, the default is that Muhammad does not know the unseen. if someone wants to claim that the innovation of Hadith in the next centuries was told to Muhammad, he/she needs to show some evidence from Quran. Otherwise, we resort to the default case and argue based on that.
  2. The interesting question here is that how come Hadith and the whole complicated method of Hadith-mining is such an important weight in the practice of Islam and yet there is no single reference to it in Quran. I gathered all the verses in Quran that could remotely and indirectly at least imply the Hadith-mining method and I failed to get to the conclusion that supporters of Hadith draw. Perhaps I made a mistake in my analysis and you can help me pointing it out in the following post:

Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Abrahamic Religions DIR / Islam DIR / Qur'anist DIR / Islam Without Hadith

As someone pointed out from the Quran that the Holy prophet is like model for all mankind, it is a major question, (excuse my ignorance) how the Quranists try to emulate the Prophet Muhammad(saw)
I appreciate if you could read my analysis of this verse in the previous post in this thread.
 

Union

Well-Known Member
It doesn't.

Now you know that the most reliable source of Islam Sahih Bukhari doesn't exist from its 'original' author and also you know that it was created some hundred years after the demise of the Prophet . This automatically put the whole Hadith concept under a big question mark . What more to say ...

The rest of the post , i leave where it was . Thanks .
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
You answered the first but not the next . Where is the manuscript of the Bukhari ?

Yes , Hadith came long after the Prophet and his companions , which they didn't have any clue of . From those hundred thousands (assumed 1,24,000 ) of Prophet's companions left a single hadith , there could be some 1,24,000 Hadith exist . But not a single ever exist . On the other hand they compiled the Qur'an and made it sure to preseve it for their next generations . You may move around Topkapi , Sana, Cairo , Pittsburgh , Samarkand etc. , you will find these manuscripts still exist .

Whatsoever , Qur'an is the Hadith and Sunnah of Prophet . When Qur'an says ' Give charity to poor ones' [2.215] , Prophet Muhammad recited ot to the people and accomplished its action and in turns following 2.215 is following the Sunnah of Prophet .

It can not be simpler than this :

01- Prophet Muhammad and his companions never know Hadith and hence they left no manuscript of Hadith . But they left Qur'an in preserved hard copy - which is the only source of Islam .

02- To follow Qur'an is tantamount to follow the Sunnah of Prophet .
Hadith was taken from the companions so how can you say they had no knowledge of it. At the beginning of every Hadith the companion that heard it from the messenger is mentioned and the chain of narrators then followed.. If it's a unknown person well the Hadith becomes weak. According to the rules of hadeeth. Have you study Bukhari, or Muslim, tirmidthi, or any of the other books of Hadith.. Do you know what makes a hadeeth sound and weak and all the rules relating to it.. Everyone wants to talk and teach what they know but no actual knowledge of it. Just ideas and assumptions with no proof . There are several books on Usool ul hadeeth... Please read them

.... what I find funny is everyone is talking about Bukhari as if it's the only source of Hadith and the first... Do you even know what was the first book of hadeeth.. Meaning a actual kitab or book.. If not maybe sheikh Google can help with this one .. Parts of the original bukari are in Riyadh in a museum but they are irrelevant...

Before you speak about Bukari of his book know him first

As far as relevance and importance I posted something years ago called the authority and importance of the sunnah...

Salaam to all my brothers and sisters in Islam.
 

safdar.dushantappeh

simpleislam.weebly.com
Everyone wants to talk and teach what they know but no actual knowledge of it. Just ideas and assumptions with no proof . There are several books on Usool ul hadeeth... Please read them
There are two ways to defend a method:
1) Showing that the method in its entirety makes sense and self-consistent.
2) Showing that the elements of the method are derived from principles.

From what I understand, what we all agree on is believing on three principles:
a) the God, b) the judgement day, c) Quran.
Now in the method practiced by the majority, we have
the God + the judgement day + Quran + Hadith

The way Mr. Mujahid Mohammed is arguing is that to show the method composed of the above four items is reasonable and makes sense; and prerequisite to fully understand his argument is to first read the books he suggested.

One other way that I consider more constructive is to show that how Hadith would be concluded from the three principles that we all believe in: the God + the judgement day + Quran. If we cannot show that the following predicate is valid:
the God + the judgement day + Quran => Hadith
then, the least we can conclude is that Hadith is not part of the Islam that Quran defines.

One could argue that there is a better religious practice than Islam called Islam2.0 which is composed of Islam + Hadith. Then we can discuss that which one is a better practice: Islam or Islam 2.0. But Hadith cannot be considered part of Islam unless the following predicate is proven:
the God + the judgement day + Quran => Hadith
And there is a constructive way to verify the validity of the above predicate: Quran. We can list the arguments for the above predicate in Quran and discuss them.
 

SeekerOfGod

Ahmadi Muslim
Thanks for the verse Smart_Guy
But in the posted analysis of criticisms of simple Islam, this particular verse was already discussed in detail. Here is a link to another post in this forum that covers this subject:
Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Abrahamic Religions DIR / Islam DIR / Qur'anist DIR / Islam Without Hadith

Just in case, I copy-paste the related excerpt here as well:
There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often. (21)
The critics of Simple Islam argue that how one can take the prophet as a pattern after he has been dead; thus, there must a way to transmit his lifestyle to the muslims who are born after centuries so that they also can take the prophet as a pattern. The critics then introduce Hadith and Hadith-mining as a solution to this problem.
To be able to employ this argument one must first show that "you" in the verse refers to all the believers of the history. However, facts are indicating otherwise. For example, if we do not separate this verse from the context and look at the verse before:
They think the companies have not [yet] withdrawn. And if the companies should come [again], they would wish they were in the desert among the bedouins, inquiring [from afar] about your news. And if they should be among you, they would not fight except for a little. (20) There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often. (21)
we see that "you" is referring to the muslims who were fighting with the prophet at the battle of Ahzab.
If we look at the other usages of the term "excellent pattern" in Quran, we see that Quran considers also Abraham and those with him as an excellent pattern for the muslims of the time of Muhammad.
There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah. Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination. (4)
Does this mean that there was a science of Hadith at the time of Muhammad and the Hadiths attributed to Abraham and those with him were being collected and mined? Does this mean that we at this time must also collect and mine Hadiths attributed to Abraham? The answer is No. In this verse, Quran clearly explains that to which behavior of Abraham and those with him it is referring and asks the believers of Medina to take that particular behavior as a pattern. Now, if we take another look at the usage of the term "excellent pattern" for Muhammad, we see that the chapter is about the people who are looking for excuses to escape from the battle of Ahzab and Quran commands them to take the prophet as an excellent pattern and like him stand still.

Peace be on you,

If you go back a few verses we read "O ye who believe! remember the favour of Allah on you when there came down upon you hosts, and We sent against them a wind and hosts that you saw not. And Allah sees what you do". The verses continue describing the details of the battle of Ditch and the example set by the prophet. Here I quote a summary:

"The battle of the ditch perhaps constituted the hardest ordeal in the Holy Prophet's career and from the supreme test he emerged with enhanced moral stature and prestige. In fact, it is on time of danger, when all around dark, or in the hour of success and victory when a person's enemy lies prostrate at his feet, that is his real mettel is tested and history bears an eloquent testimony to the fact that the Holy Prophet was as great and noble in times of distress, as he was in the hour of success"

Then we read in the Holy Quran "Verily you have in the Prophet of Allah an excellent model, for him who fears Allah and the Last Day and who remembers Allah much."

-Notice that the "you" is the same as the "you" here. Since the you in the earlier verse is towards all those who believe, the verse must be addressing all those who believe here too.
-You may point out that the earlier verse says ""O ye who believe! remember the favour of Allah on you when there came down upon you hosts...", therefore it must be referring to the participants of the battle, but this is not logical since if the verse was referring to a fraction of the believers then beginning the verse with "O ye who believe" does not sound right since it refers to believers and addresses only a fraction of them. Muslims are like one body. Example serves the purpose: "Spain won the world cup last time." Technically no. It was the Spanish team that won it but this is how expression works. Similarly, Allah sent upon us, the believers, the Muslims, a favour when there came down upon us hosts.
-Even if we take "you" in the second verse "Verily you have in the Prophet of Allah an excellent model, for him who fears Allah and the Last Day and who remembers Allah much" to be those who fought in the battle of Ditch , then we cannot apply this to us. Since the the Holy Quran is a guidance for the righteous, it makes sense for the verse to refer it to verse.
-Conclusion: Therefore, we should study the life and practice of the Holy Prophet (sa) as he understood the Qur'an the best. Indeed, the Quran says "He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it there are verses that are decisive in meaning — they are the basis of the Book — and there are others that are susceptible of different interpretations. But those in whose hearts is perversity pursue such thereof as are susceptible of different interpretations, seeking discord and seeking wrong interpretation of it. And none knows its right interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge; they say, ‘We believe in it; the whole is from our Lord.’ — And none heed except those gifted with understanding"[3:7].

It is none but the Holy Prophet, who is most firmly grounded in knowledge so it makes sense to study the life and interpretations of the Holy Prophet.

-With reference to your second argument, yes I do think that we will benefit as Muslims if we study the life and teachings of Prophet Abraham (as). Indeed there are a number of hadith (of Holy Prophet(sa)) which discuss the life and teachings about Prophet Abraham (as). But also notice the time span between Abraham(as) and Holy Prophet (sa) is approximately 2500years, making our task quite difficult. But, hey, we have the life and teachings of the Seal of the Prophets Hadhrat Muhammad (sa).
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
There are two ways to defend a method:
1) Showing that the method in its entirety makes sense and self-consistent.
2) Showing that the elements of the method are derived from principles.

From what I understand, what we all agree on is believing on three principles:
a) the God, b) the judgement day, c) Quran.
Now in the method practiced by the majority, we have
the God + the judgement day + Quran + Hadith

The way Mr. Mujahid Mohammed is arguing is that to show the method composed of the above four items is reasonable and makes sense; and prerequisite to fully understand his argument is to first read the books he suggested.

One other way that I consider more constructive is to show that how Hadith would be concluded from the three principles that we all believe in: the God + the judgement day + Quran. If we cannot show that the following predicate is valid:
the God + the judgement day + Quran => Hadith
then, the least we can conclude is that Hadith is not part of the Islam that Quran defines.

One could argue that there is a better religious practice than Islam called Islam2.0 which is composed of Islam + Hadith. Then we can discuss that which one is a better practice: Islam or Islam 2.0. But Hadith cannot be considered part of Islam unless the following predicate is proven:
the God + the judgement day + Quran => Hadith
And there is a constructive way to verify the validity of the above predicate: Quran. We can list the arguments for the above predicate in Quran and discuss them.
Without Hadith there is no Islam. Any Muslim who doesn't follow the sunnah of the prophet which is preserved in the hadeeth is not a Muslim.. Because if your argument is sound how does a Muslim pray, just any way he wants... How do we perform hajj? How do we pay zakat? All of these are pillars of the religion.. If you leave them or do them incorrectly it's not accepted so You have to go to hadeeth..

As illustrated in a post the authority and importance of the sunnah I wrote years ago , for the Quran clearly states in in verses 59 and 80 of Surah nissa.. In numerous verses of the Quran it's says Obey Allah AND THE MESSENGER
 

safdar.dushantappeh

simpleislam.weebly.com
As illustrated in a post the authority and importance of the sunnah I wrote years ago , for the Quran clearly states in in verses 59 and 80 of Surah nissa.. In numerous verses of the Quran it's says Obey Allah AND THE MESSENGER

Thanks Mujahid Mohammad. I would call it a great start for a constructive discussion. Do you think you can give a read to the analysis of this verse in the following posts and tell us whether the analysis makes sense to you, and if it does not, which part is not reasonable?

Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Abrahamic Religions DIR / Islam DIR / Qur'anist DIR / What does ‘ Obey GOD and obey the Messenger’ really mean ?

and

Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Abrahamic Religions DIR / Islam DIR / Qur'anist DIR / Islam Without Hadith

Thanks
Safdar
 

Union

Well-Known Member
Hadith was taken from the companions so how can you say they had no knowledge of it. At the beginning of every Hadith the companion that heard it from the messenger is mentioned and the chain of narrators then followed.. If it's a unknown person well the Hadith becomes weak. According to the rules of hadeeth. Have you study Bukhari, or Muslim, tirmidthi, or any of the other books of Hadith.. Do you know what makes a hadeeth sound and weak and all the rules relating to it.. Everyone wants to talk and teach what they know but no actual knowledge of it. Just ideas and assumptions with no proof . There are several books on Usool ul hadeeth... Please read them

Who made all those rules of Ulm ul Hadith ? GOD , Prophet ? No. These are just opinions of fallible Imams , whom Shia and Sunni follow . Nothing solid , nothing divine .

None of the companions recorded any Hadith . Show me only 01 page of Hadith from 100000s companions preserved till today .


.... what I find funny is everyone is talking about Bukhari as if it's the only source of Hadith and the first... Do you even know what was the first book of hadeeth.. Meaning a actual kitab or book.. If not maybe sheikh Google can help with this one .. Parts of the original bukari are in Riyadh in a museum but they are irrelevant...

Are you ready to talk about Malik's Muawatta ? That will even more hilarious how Hadith can be changed and edited and re-edited and re-re-edited.... ? Whatsoever , Bukhari is discussed again and again because it is regarded 100% Sahih and followed by 100% Sunni . To nail Bukhari , will pierce through the whole Hadith literature of Sunni sect .

You mentioned something about a manuscript of Bukhari in Riyadh ... Can you provide more information on that , on-line availability preferable .
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
Thanks Mujahid Mohammad. I would call it a great start for a constructive discussion. Do you think you can give a read to the analysis of this verse in the following posts and tell us whether the analysis makes sense to you, and if it does not, which part is not reasonable?

Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Abrahamic Religions DIR / Islam DIR / Qur'anist DIR / What does ‘ Obey GOD and obey the Messenger’ really mean ?

and

Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Abrahamic Religions DIR / Islam DIR / Qur'anist DIR / Islam Without Hadith

Thanks
Safdar
can you post them as links would make things easier
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
Who made all those rules of Ulm ul Hadith ? GOD , Prophet ? No. These are just opinions of fallible Imams , whom Shia and Sunni follow . Nothing solid , nothing divine .

None of the companions recorded any Hadith . Show me only 01 page of Hadith from 100000s companions preserved till today .




Are you ready to talk about Malik's Muawatta ? That will even more hilarious how Hadith can be changed and edited and re-edited and re-re-edited.... ? Whatsoever , Bukhari is discussed again and again because it is regarded 100% Sahih and followed by 100% Sunni . To nail Bukhari , will pierce through the whole Hadith literature of Sunni sect .

You mentioned something about a manuscript of Bukhari in Riyadh ... Can you provide more information on that , on-line availability preferable .
which rule exactly cause there are a few? And I am assuming you know the rules...

Bring up whatever you like about al Muwatta since it's funny cause you know that once ab Hadith is changed it's classified as Mulduah, but I have a question can you read and understand Arabic in Oder to look at and understand the actual hadeeth or are you going off the English

What do you mean no Sahaba recorded hadeeth? What do you mean?

There are online flights to Riyadh go book and see... All the answers you seek aren't online.. For example if your a Christian scholar you may need to fly to Vatican to read manuscripts cause Sheihk wiki and Google May not help you... These sheikhs may not have daleel for you
 

Union

Well-Known Member
which rule exactly cause there are a few? And I am assuming you know the rules...

Bring up whatever you like about al Muwatta since it's funny cause you know that once ab Hadith is changed it's classified as Mulduah, but I have a question can you read and understand Arabic in Oder to look at and understand the actual hadeeth or are you going off the English

What do you mean no Sahaba recorded hadeeth? What do you mean?

There are online flights to Riyadh go book and see... All the answers you seek aren't online.. For example if your a Christian scholar you may need to fly to Vatican to read manuscripts cause Sheihk wiki and Google May not help you... These sheikhs may not have daleel for you

I asked you some questions and without answering them you you asked me questions instead ? What that proves ?

Whatsoever , I was in Saudi Arabia for along time - Riyadh , Dammam , Khobar, Mecce , Medina , Jeddah etc. never heard about what you claimed . Please next time give a precise answer , if you don't , then don't beat around the bush .
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
I asked you some questions and without answering them you you asked me questions instead ? What that proves ?

Whatsoever , I was in Saudi Arabia for along time - Riyadh , Dammam , Khobar, Mecce , Medina , Jeddah etc. never heard about what you claimed . Please next time give a precise answer , if you don't , then don't beat around the bush .

Let's be fair you asked a question and then gave your answer for it... And since you said God didn't legislate it neither the prophet just as you say fallible imams.. Was there really a sincere question in your questioning?

You was in the Arab world but were you looking for ancient Arabic text, sitting with ulama, learning the deen of Islam...
 

Union

Well-Known Member
Let's be fair you asked a question and then gave your answer for it... And since you said God didn't legislate it neither the prophet just as you say fallible imams.. Was there really a sincere question in your questioning?

You was in the Arab world but were you looking for ancient Arabic text, sitting with ulama, learning the deen of Islam...

I ask for apple , you offer me orange , hahaha ...Let leave it there .
 

safdar.dushantappeh

simpleislam.weebly.com
Thanks a lot SeekerOfGod,

Since the you in the earlier verse is towards all those who believe, the verse must be addressing all those who believe here too.

I kind of assumed that is acceptable between Muslims that when they see a sentence starts with " O you who have believed", the audience are the believers at the time that Quran was descending. We believers at this time can look at the conversation and learn from it, but to generalize the exact instruction to all Muslims of all times, I am afraid we need an argument stronger than the Spain example.

The reason that I assumed that it is obvious that the audience are believers at the time that Quran is descending was firstly because the contexts of such verses indicate so. One example is the same verse that we are discussing, were the story is about a particular battle of Ditch. Secondly, there are examples that generalization of such verses to all the Muslims is simply inconsistent with the subject of the verse. An example is Al-Ma'ida [5:101]

O you who have believed, do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you. But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be shown to you. Allah has pardoned that which is past; and Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing. (101)

where, clearly cannot be generalized to us because Quran is not descending at our time. Can you share with us that what is your position about this generalization and what are the supporting arguments?


then we cannot apply this to us. Since the the Holy Quran is a guidance for the righteous, it makes sense for the verse to refer it to verse.

When we draw philosophical arguments, care needs to be taken to clarify the assumptions. In the argument above, the hidden assumption is that "Quran cannot be a guidance, if it does not giveto righteous explicit instructions that say what exactly do and what exactly not to do". This assumption is kind of stemmed from the current perception of religion that describes a believer like a robot that takes clear instructions and the only thing left for him/her to do is just doing them. The robot believer has no responsibility on deepening his/her understanding of religion, life, and the God and has no responsibility to apply Quran to improve his/her understanding of what should be done in the very particular and unique situations that he is experiencing, as scholars has already done the favor and all is left to do is to just do whatever they say is right.

I am wondering if one can base this assumption on Quran? Why one should find Quran useless if it does not give him/her the exact instruction? If one can bring evidence from Quran to support this view of religion, it would be a great start for a discussion.

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it there are verses that are decisive in meaning — they are the basis of the Book — and there are others that are susceptible of different interpretations. But those in whose hearts is perversity pursue such thereof as are susceptible of different interpretations, seeking discord and seeking wrong interpretation of it. And none knows its right interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge; they say, ‘We believe in it; the whole is from our Lord.’ — And none heed except those gifted with understanding"[3:7]

I guess you did not do me the favor of reading the following post that includes discussion about many Qurani examples criticizing "Islam without Hadith":
Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Abrahamic Religions DIR / Islam DIR / Qur'anist DIR / Islam Without Hadith
Anyway, I copy-paste the related text about this verse here:

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. (7)​
The verse says that there exist some unspecific verses in Quran that not everybody understands their interpretation. The critics of Simple Islam argue that now that not everybody can understand Quran, there must be a way that the ones who understand it convey their understanding to other who do not. Therefore, there must be something attached to Quran that explains the unspecific verses that are causing error so that the others also understand them like the way the God (and perhaps those who are firm in knowledge) understands them. The critics of Simple Islam then introduce the Hadiths attributed to religious figures as this missing attachment and hence consider mining the Hadiths carried over the history as part of the religious practice approved by Quran.
In response, we should say that the unspecified verses are not the weak point of Quran so that it would require our tricks to fix them. As the text clearly says the very existence of these unspecified verses is intentional to separate those in whose heart is deviation from the true believers. In fact, Quran is not supposed to be guidance for everybody and as Quran introduces itself at its beginning, it is a book for guidance for those conscious of the God.
This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah - (2)
At no point in the verse it is mentioned that the ones who do not know the interpretation must refer to the ones who do know it so that we seek Hadith-mining as an implementation of the assumed referring.
In fact, one can understand from this verse that a regular believer does not have to understand the entire Quran; comprehending Quran sometimes requires a pure heart which cannot be obtained by knowledge. The reaction of a believer when faces the verses that he/she does not understand well must be that "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." not that hopelessly referring to the Elders (scholars) seeking for an interpretation. There is nothing wrong with a believer admitting that he/she is currently does not fully understand part of Quran. The hope is that by reading Quran continuously and purifying the heart as well as the vision after practicing its recommendations, each time that the believer reads Quran understands it better and better.
With reference to your second argument, yes I do think that we will benefit as Muslims if we study the life and teachings of Prophet Abraham (as). Indeed

How about the believers at the time of Muhammad? Did they explore the Hadiths attributed to Abraham? If no, did they disobey Quran (where you believe that instructed them to explore the Hadiths attributed to Abraham and those with him)? If it was not necessary for them to do so, why Quran instruct them to do that? Sounds unreasonable, does not it?

But also notice the time span between Abraham(as) and Holy Prophet (sa) is approximately 2500years, making our task quite difficult.

Then we need an explanation that why Quran instructs us to explore the Hadiths of Abraham while it is not practical to do so (I do not believe that Quran says that but whoever believes it, also needs to also explain it). Do you think Quran was unaware of the impracticality of this command?
 

soledad

New Member
Hadith is very important for Muslims. We don't need the hadith per say to follow the path that God wants us to. All the very important information is in the Qur'an, it describes what the Islamic way of life should be.

But as Muslims, sometimes we are not sure about a specific topic. We don't know if we are doing the right thing because it is not mentioned in the Qur'an. When this happens, we can go to the hadith to learn what the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his family and friends have done in a similar situation. It helps direct us in the right way and clears any confusion.
 

Union

Well-Known Member
Hadith is very important for Muslims. We don't need the hadith per say to follow the path that God wants us to. All the very important information is in the Qur'an, it describes what the Islamic way of life should be.

But as Muslims, sometimes we are not sure about a specific topic. We don't know if we are doing the right thing because it is not mentioned in the Qur'an. When this happens, we can go to the hadith to learn what the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his family and friends have done in a similar situation. It helps direct us in the right way and clears any confusion.

Hi Soledad. Do you have an example for the case that any Islamic affair may not addressed in Qur'an by ALLAH , the All-knowing ? Remember what ALLAH , the Almighty says about HIS Quran :

[006:114] Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than God? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

[017:089] And We have explained to man, in this Quran, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude!

[007:052] For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe.

Should we still doubt that Qur'an is not covering so many fields of Islam ?
 

safdar.dushantappeh

simpleislam.weebly.com
can you post them as links would make things easier

Here are the links:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/quranist-dir/116788-what-does-obey-god-obey-messenger.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/quranist-dir/157193-islam-without-hadith.html

The latter includes an analysis of all the verses from Quran that is commonly interpreted as being supportive of Hadith:
Criticisms of Simple Islam - Simple Islam

I am impatiently looking forward to continue the discussion on the subject of examples from Quran that might support the Hadith-mining approach. We can continue the discussion either in this thread or the following one:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/quranist-dir/157193-islam-without-hadith.html
 
Top