synopsis of a Michael Shermer Hugh Ross debate

robtex · Feb 5, 2006

http://www.ldolphin.org/shermer-ross.html

I found this debate interesting and wanted to post the link here.

linwood · Feb 5, 2006

Regarding the first item, he(Ross) said that the singularity ("Big Bang") origin of the Universe was a transcendent event that must have had a cause.

I`m telling ya that singularity is more damn trouble than it`s worth!!

Ross then cited a paper by Hawking and Penrose in which Ross said it was stated that all mass, energy, space, and time must be traceable back to a beginning.

He`s right again.

Ross said the Universe had been slowing down for the first 8 billion years and then has been speeding up for the next 6 billion years.

Now he`s riding off into left field.

Ross then concluded that this "entity" who created the Universe was 1060/1023 times more intelligent than were the people who designed the gravity wave telescope.

Now he`s just making stuff up.

From his estimation of the high improbability of the Universe being so finely tuned and the high improbability of life arising on Earth he concluded that everything must have been designed by the Christian God.

He`s done.
He is comparing the OT to the Big Bang and comes up with athe Christian God as the answer.
He`s done.

Shermer asked those who had brought Bibles to check Ross's references. Later there was time for one person to read one of the verses cited by Ross. By a large stretch of the imagination it might have related to what Ross what talking about.

[IT WAS A PASSAGE ABOUT GOD EXPANDING A TENT FOR MORE PEOPLE TO FIT IN IT; THIS WAS SUPPOSEDLY THE DESCRIPTION OF THE BIG BANG SINGULARITY]

Heehee..

Shermer said that science can't deal with the existence of God and that people who stick "god" in their discussions about origins are just pushing a particular religious agenda.

Shermer is always so damn rational.

Thanks for that Rob

Fade · Feb 20, 2006

It sounds like this Ross fella has read an awful lot of scientific material, not really understood it and then tried to shoehorn it into his worldview.

Buttercup · Feb 20, 2006

Fade said:
It sounds like this Ross fella has read an awful lot of scientific material

Yes, I would say that. He holds these degrees.

B.Sc. (1967) in Physics, University of British Columbia
Ma.Sc. (1968) in Astronomy, University of Toronto
Ph.D. (1973) in Astronomy, University of Toronto

Of course his theories would be controversial to other scientists being he's a Christian...not too many astronomers are.

angellous_evangellous · Feb 21, 2006

From his estimation of the high improbability of the Universe being so finely tuned and the high improbability of life arising on Earth he concluded that everything must have been designed by the Christian God.

Can this really be called a debate?

Buttercup · Feb 21, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
Can this really be called a debate?

There is a clause at the top of the paper stating that it's not really a debate as Mr. Ross doesn't participate in debates. I wish it would have been a debate format because the material probably would have been meatier. I am highly interested in hearing both sides on the issue of the origins of the universe by scientists. Check out 'Evidence' started by Jayhawker if you want more of this subject on RF...if you haven't seen it already.

Any more places you can think of online to hear/read debates such as this?

angellous_evangellous · Feb 21, 2006

Buttercup said:
There is a clause at the top of the paper stating that it's not really a debate as Mr. Ross doesn't participate in debates. I wish it would have been a debate format because the material probably would have been meatier. I am highly interested in hearing both sides on the issue of the origins of the universe by scientists. Check out 'Evidence' started by Jayhawker if you want more of this subject on RF...if you haven't seen it already.

Any more places you can think of online to hear/read debates such as this?

Thx Buttercup. I should have read the link. I just glanced at linwood's observations and didn't think that I should look further.

Having read the link, it appears that Mr. Ross doesn't know anything about science or biblical interpretation.

== EDIT = I checked his website for credentials and found this http://www.reasons.org/about/biographies.shtml.

He should hum himself to sleep every night with the mantra: Evidence must match conclusions.... evidence must match conclusions.... evidence must match conclusions

In this respect, he is a failure as a scientist.

angellous_evangellous · Feb 21, 2006

Answers in Genesis' response to Mr. Ross is very entertaining.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/rc/intro.asp

Check out the chart!

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/rc/intro.asp

Fade · Feb 21, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
Answers in Genesis' response to Mr. Ross is very entertaining.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/rc/intro.asp

Check out the chart!

Answers in Genesis is always good for a laugh...or a cry depending on your mood.

angellous_evangellous · Feb 21, 2006

Fade said:
Answers in Genesis is always good for a laugh...or a cry depending on your mood.

In my mind AiG belongs in the same genre as Landover Baptists.

Fade · Feb 21, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
In my mind AiG belongs in the same genre as Landover Baptists.

Never seen it but based on my works web filter

The site you requested is blocked under the following categories: Mature, Sexual Materials

I'm certainly gonna have a look at it when i get home

evearael · Feb 21, 2006

Alright... I have a background in Physics and Mathematics, as well as a decent grasp on Philosophy and Religion. This guy is a total kook who is taking random bits of scientific theories that back up his claim, ignoring the rest, and doing the same with religion.

Case in point: Joshua 10:13 & Habakkuk 3:11 referring to the sun standing still... does anyone want to know what would happen if the sun actually stood still? He obviously doesn't because it would only hurt his point.

The fact of the matter is: when you mix religion and science, both suffer. I believe they are ultimately dealing with similar questions, but are approaching from different angles. I believe very strongly in God, but I adore science. I don't see an inherent conflict, so I see no reason to attempt to justify one to the other. I believe God is beyond capable to create processes, such as evolution, to do whatever it is that He wants done. I believe science is merely striving to understand this beautiful world.

angellous_evangellous · Feb 21, 2006

Fade said:
Never seen it but based on my works web filter

I'm certainly gonna have a look at it when i get home

It has some cool thongs.

angellous_evangellous · Feb 21, 2006

It's just some good clean fun!

Buttercup · Feb 21, 2006

Landover Baptist is indeed a funny, funny site....as long as raunchy, irreverent, slamming Christian humor is fine with you. I think it's really sad that some people who visit the site think it is an actual Christian outreach forum. Take at look in the forums. We need to come up with more terms to describe stupidity because anyone going thru that site thinking it's really evangelical....well, they're just beyond a dumb bag of rocks.

Hey AE....maybe you should order that Jesus thong for your wife to wear in the mornings for ya! Oh never mind, I forgot, you're frustrated as it is!

Fade · Feb 21, 2006

Buttercup said:
Hey AE....maybe you should order that Jesus thong for your wife to wear in the mornings for ya! Oh never mind, I forgot, you're frustrated as it is!

Oh my that sounds like juicy goss, do tell!!

angellous_evangellous · Feb 21, 2006

Buttercup said:
Landover Baptist is indeed a funny, funny site....as long as raunchy, irreverent, slamming Christian humor is fine with you. I think it's really sad that some people who visit the site think it is an actual Christian outreach forum. Take at look in the forums. We need to come up with more terms to describe stupidity because anyone going thru that site thinking it's really evangelical....well, they're just beyond a dumb bag of rocks.

Hey AE....maybe you should order that Jesus thong for your wife to wear in the mornings for ya! Oh never mind, I forgot, you're frustrated as it is!

I'm happy with my wife's thong collection as it is.

I have no problem with people thinking that evangelicals are as dumb as a bag of rocks. It is a correct analysis as far as I'm concerned.

Buttercup · Feb 21, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
I have no problem with people thinking that evangelicals are as dumb as a bag of rocks. It is a correct analysis as far as I'm concerned.

You don't like Billy Graham? I think he is a wonderful, walks the walk Christian evangelist. There are a few good ones out there. Charles Stanley is another one that comes to mind.

Buttercup · Feb 21, 2006

Fade said:
Oh my that sounds like juicy goss, do tell!!

Just referring to a juicy tidbit AE let out in the "Do you think you're sexy" thread.

angellous_evangellous · Feb 21, 2006

Buttercup said:
Just referring to a juicy tidbit AE let out in the "Do you think you're sexy" thread.

I know. :jam:

synopsis of a Michael Shermer Hugh Ross debate

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