Why do People feel entitled to be a part of the middle class?

I guess what is considered help is subjective. When we have a system that results in 5th generation welfare queens perhaps we should do something different.

Put the young mother in a special school that teaches self worth in a different envionment not her own apartment with drugs and crime with little opportunity.

The war on drugs and poverty has failed, we need to do something different.

To do the same thing over and over expecting a different result is insanity and a big waste of money.

Reverend Rick said:

I guess what is considered help is subjective. When we have a system that results in 5th generation welfare queens perhaps we should do something different.

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Always the racist underlying reason. You do realize that 1% of the nation is on welfare? This isn't anything new. You want people off food stamps (you have to work) and off welfare, then raise the federal minimum wage.
Stop voting republican, which is opposite of what you want to accomplish.

tytlyf said:

Always the racist underlying reason. You do realize that 1% of the nation is on welfare? This isn't anything new. You want people off food stamps (you have to work) and off welfare, then raise the federal minimum wage.
Stop voting republican, which is opposite of what you want to accomplish.

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LOL, your so typical attacking me as a racist. The whole Republican party is racist right? I would be insulted, but what I really see is a lack of substance and a sign you really have no arguement to further your cause.

What is truly sad is a whole group of people are limited in life to a subsistant lifestyle when life has so much more to offer.

Not every person of color is buying your rhetoric and is welcomed with open arms to the world of success and capitalism.

The real racism is their brothers in arms who call black Republicans "Uncle Toms" when they embrace the party of a better life.

Reverend Rick said:

LOL, your so typical attacking me as a racist. The whole Republican party is racist right? I would be insulted, but what I really see is a lack of substance and a sign you really have no arguement to further your cause.

What is truly sad is a whole group of people are limited in life to a subsistant lifestyle when life has so much more to offer.

Not every person of color is buying your rhetoric and is welcomed with open arms to the world of success and capitalism.

The real racism is their brothers in arms who call black Republicans "Uncle Toms" when they embrace the party of a better life.

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The party of a better life? That's what they sell, reality is different Mr. Koch Industries. Greed... Jesus wouldn't be voting republican

Reverend Rick said:

I guess what is considered help is subjective. When we have a system that results in 5th generation welfare queens perhaps we should do something different.

Put the young mother in a special school that teaches self worth in a different envionment not her own apartment with drugs and crime with little opportunity.

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This is really a gross generalization.....

Tarheeler said:

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And you're notta kiddiin!

Reverend Rick said:

The real racism is their brothers in arms who call black Republicans "Uncle Toms" when they embrace the party of a better life.

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Wow, so now all those black people are stupid because they don't vote for "the party of a better life"?! And I suppose Amerindians, Asians, and Jews are stupid as well since they don't much vote for "the party of a better life" either?

Growing up, I always thought I was "middle class". However, it came to my attention that I was probably more akin to working class. My father worked in a factory and my mom is a middle school teacher. We never went without food, clothes, healthcare and gifts for Christmas; but we also didn't have extravagant spending binges either and lived in a trailer.

The definition is middle class is always changing. I think the "entitlement" of wanting to be such a thing is to simply not wanting to live in poverty. Which is not, when you think about it, an unfair want, since many (although I would say most) "poor" people are very hard-working. It's just that life hasn't given them the best hand.

Reverend Rick said:

We all come into this world with nothing. We cannot choose our parents. Once we are raised and become young adults, we may find ourselves working while we have no skills or experience. Basically we start at the beginning many times with nothing. It could take years for us to get an education, gain work experience and find gainful employment that pays a living wage. One could work their butt off and not become middle class for 10 years perhaps.

Why do some folks feel entitled to transition into adulthood automatically being middle class? After all many of us were born with a plastic spoon in our mouth not silver.

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I've never really known what middle class is. I worked 30 yrs retired, pay my bills and go on. To me that's what the majority of people do. So what's any "class?"

Reverend Rick said:

Why do some folks feel entitled to transition into adulthood automatically being middle class? After all many of us were born with a plastic spoon in our mouth not silver.

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It seems more prevalent for younger people to feel entitled to transition right into being wealthy, successful, "happy," emotionally-fulfilled, and universally loved and admired. All without moving out of their parents' house or getting a job.

StarryNightshade said:

Growing up, I always thought I was "middle class". However, it came to my attention that I was probably more akin to working class. My father worked in a factory and my mom is a middle school teacher. We never went without food, clothes, healthcare and gifts for Christmas; but we also didn't have extravagant spending binges either and lived in a trailer.

The definition is middle class is always changing. I think the "entitlement" of wanting to be such a thing is to simply not wanting to live in poverty. Which is not, when you think about it, an unfair want, since many (although I would say most) "poor" people are very hard-working. It's just that life hasn't given them the best hand.

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I totally agree. The hardest workers are the least paid workers and they probably wouldn't have to work so hard if our society conditions were better. The "poor" spend most of their lives working just to live while we have some people who don't even know what hard work is but they want for nothing. How fair is that system? Is it fair that a father or mother have to work multiple jobs just to feed their kids but are unable to actually spend time with their kids? Wages are low but hours worked are higher than ever.

StarryNightshade said:

Growing up, I always thought I was "middle class". However, it came to my attention that I was probably more akin to working class. My father worked in a factory and my mom is a middle school teacher. We never went without food, clothes, healthcare and gifts for Christmas; but we also didn't have extravagant spending binges either and lived in a trailer.

The definition is middle class is always changing. I think the "entitlement" of wanting to be such a thing is to simply not wanting to live in poverty. Which is not, when you think about it, an unfair want, since many (although I would say most) "poor" people are very hard-working. It's just that life hasn't given them the best hand.

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I agree....

Right before, during and up to now...those with 2 and 4 year degrees are finding themselves competing for jobs they would have normally skipped over. The vast majority of people on various forms of public assistance are the working poor, the elderly, parents and/or grandparents raising children and military veterans.

Republicans want to cut upwards of $40 Billion Dollars out of the SNAP (Food Stamp) program over the next ten years seemingly without any firm grasp on reality as to who is actually getting those benefits. The chart at the link below shows the thousands upon thousands of veterans from state to state receiving SNAP assistance... Yet these same people are looking to cut these vital benefits....

SNAP Benefit Cuts Will Affect Thousands of Veterans in Every State — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

These are the same people who showed up for a photo op during their Republican Lead Shutdown to take pictures with veterans....

Reverend Rick said:

We all come into this world with nothing. We cannot choose our parents. Once we are raised and become young adults, we may find ourselves working while we have no skills or experience. Basically we start at the beginning many times with nothing. It could take years for us to get an education, gain work experience and find gainful employment that pays a living wage. One could work their butt off and not become middle class for 10 years perhaps.

Why do some folks feel entitled to transition into adulthood automatically being middle class? After all many of us were born with a plastic spoon in our mouth not silver.

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Middle class? In America? I thought you guys dumped that rubbish.
The people that I am close to dumped class, secret societies, and the rest of that rubbish in our teenaged years...
Questions:

Is there an upper class?
What is the definition of an upper class person?
Is there really a middle class?
What is the definition of a middle class person?
What is the definition of a lower class person?
Can folks opt out of this rubbish?
Were you born with a plastic spoon or your Grandad's spoon in your mouth?
Did you inherit your share of your Grandad's lands and possesions?
One more..... how many members of secret societies kid themselves that they are lone wolves?

That would do to start off.......

Reverend Rick said:

This is why we must have different countries who have different ideals. Otherwise, one group must crush the other to be happy.

I want to live in a place where you have to work to eat and must sink or swim. What would be a more strong motivator?

I want to have more than others and am willing to work for it. I also want to choose who I help that cannot fend for themselves.

If you really want a strong community, everyone needs to be productive if possible. I don't want to reward laziness or ignorance.

I want to see people who have more than I do. Otherwise how do you aspire to greatness?

To live in a community were everyone has the same house and car no matter how hard they work would be like living in a prison.

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I would actually like the same thing. Though some things that are unsaid I am sure we disagree on.

#H.E.B.Knowledge said:

I totally agree. The hardest workers are the least paid workers and they probably wouldn't have to work so hard if our society conditions were better. The "poor" spend most of their lives working just to live while we have some people who don't even know what hard work is but they want for nothing. How fair is that system? Is it fair that a father or mother have to work multiple jobs just to feed their kids but are unable to actually spend time with their kids? Wages are low but hours worked are higher than ever.

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I totally don't.
Some of the least paid workers work extremely hard. Some highly paid workers work extremely hard. I didn't lose my work ethic as my wage increased (and it started ridiculously low) and if anything I now work longer hours, travel away from my family more, and face more stressful situations.

Please note, I am not stating that higher paid people work harder, so don't equate it with that. I am also not suggesting the system is 'fair'. I am suggesting that harder working people work harder.

Reverend Rick said:

This is why we must have different countries who have different ideals. Otherwise, one group must crush the other to be happy.

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"Must" is taking it too far.

Reverend Rick said:

I want to live in a place where you have to work to eat and must sink or swim. What would be a more strong motivator?

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Personally, I don't, and frankly, I find anyone who thinks this way to be a tad inhumane. Would you find it morally acceptable to let the jobless starve to death?

Reverend Rick said:

I want to have more than others and am willing to work for it. I also want to choose who I help that cannot fend for themselves.

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To me, this amounts of selfishness, something I can't support.

Reverend Rick said:

If you really want a strong community, everyone needs to be productive if possible. I don't want to reward laziness or ignorance.

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It seems that your line of reasoning operates under the assumption that all who live in poverty are by default lazy or ignorant. This is, in fact, rarely the case.

Reverend Rick said:

I want to see people who have more than I do. Otherwise how do you aspire to greatness?

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By being selfless and virtuous. There's no need to factor in relative status when this is the state of affairs.

Reverend Rick said:

To live in a community were everyone has the same house and car no matter how hard they work would be like living in a prison.

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To live in a community that rewards the greedy is like living in hell.

Reverend Rick said:

I want to live in a place where you have to work to eat and must sink or swim. What would be a more strong motivator?

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Most people agree, assuming the caveat for people who really do need help.

I want to have more than others and am willing to work for it. I also want to choose who I help that cannot fend for themselves.

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That's fine, except that's an ineffective and unrealistic way to approach helping people. Ideally the choice could be left to everyone, but in a huge society like ours, such decisions are rarely able to be left to each individual. It just doesn't work.

If you really want a strong community, everyone needs to be productive if possible. I don't want to reward laziness or ignorance.

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Nor does anyone else (well, at least 99.9% of people agree with you).

I want to see people who have more than I do. Otherwise how do you aspire to greatness?

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Again, most people would agree.

To live in a community were everyone has the same house and car no matter how hard they work would be like living in a prison.

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I'm not sure I'd go that far, but as usual, you seem to be arguing against strawmen here.

Most people want all the things you want: people who can work to do so and be productive, not helping people who don't need it, having different levels of wealth, etc. The main difference is in viewing how we achieve that stuff in a complex society like ours.

To get help to all those who truly need it, realistically we're going to end up helping people who don't need it. It's inevitable. We can do our best to minimize this, but generally the issue here isn't that some people are fine with helping people who are just lazy and some people don't like it. The issue is that some people exaggerate the magnitude of the problem of lazy people getting help, while others acknowledge that such a thing happens and should be minimized, but is also an inevitable by-product of helping the truly needy.

Some people recognize that extreme wealth inequality is a bad thing for society, but a certain level of it is good. The problem is that then other people interpret calls for lowering the inequality (but not getting rid of it completely) as calls for "everyone having the same house and car no matter how hard they work". Then the discussion ends up being dispelling strawmen, rather than discussing reasonable ideas for improving society.

Kilgore Trout said:

It seems more prevalent for younger people to feel entitled to transition right into being wealthy, successful, "happy," emotionally-fulfilled, and universally loved and admired. All without moving out of their parents' house or getting a job.

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I'm not so sure about this. I tend to wonder how much this view is just the age-old "damn kids these days" attitude that every generation has of younger generations. As always, it's hard to tell because it's hard to get more than anecdotal evidence either way, although it's possible there is some I'm missing in this case.