How can you tell God apart from Satan?

InChrist said:

From my perspective, the Bible is pretty clear that God created Lucifer an anointed cherub( Ezekiel 28:14) ... who then became filled with violence and iniquity and sinned, becoming a wicked fallen angel(Ezekiel 28:15-16). This concept originates from the biblical scriptures and not the RCC. I would say that Jesus and the apostles used the expression "from the beginning" to indicate that from the beginning of earth's history (starting in the garden) satan has been a liar and a murderer.

I think that word spoiler in Isaiah 54:16 is in reference to human enemies of Israel rather than satan.

"Satan was created as a holy angel. Isaiah 14:12 possibly gives Satan’s pre-fall name as Lucifer. Ezekiel 28:12-14 describes Satan as having been created a cherubim, apparently the highest created angel. He became arrogant in his beauty and status and decided he wanted to sit on a throne above that of God (Isaiah 14:13-14; Ezekiel 28:15; 1 Timothy 3:6). Satan’s pride led to his fall. Notice the many “I will” statements in Isaiah 14:12-15. Because of his sin, God permanently removed Satan from his exalted position and role."

Read more: Who is Satan?​

Click to expand...

Benoni said:

The word LUCIFER is used only ONCE in the entirety of the Bible, which is found in Isaiah 14:12, It reads, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning!" This so very often and little understood word comes from the Hebrew word HEYLEL which simply
means SHINING ONE (Young's Concordance), MORNING STAR (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance), BRIGHT STAR or SPLENDID STAR (Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon). etc. LUCIFER is the Latin word which was translated from heylel. Heylel is not a proper noun but is a word that Tells us something about the one spoken of. The Hebrew does not indicate this is a
Personal name, not in the remotest sense; nonetheless, the Latin translators rendered it as such.

So you think that word spoiler in Isaiah 54:16 is in reference to human enemies of Israel rather than Satan.

I disagree. Isaiah 54:16 is speaking of Satan, for Satan is a liar a murderer and waster and that is how God created him not as a MASQUERADE angel. Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

You claim: "Satan was created as a holy angel. Isaiah 14:12 possibly gives Satan’s pre-fall name as Lucifer.
But Satan is never mentioned in Isaiah 14:12 and seeing : II Cor. 11:14. Declares Satan masquerading as an angel of light is Lucifer Satan????.

Click to expand...

Salmu Azag said:

Lucifer has no place in the Christian paradigm, he is not the Abrahamic Satan and/or Devil.

The word Lucifer is found in Isaiah 14:12 -- but only in the King James and related versions: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning?" The King James Version is based on the Vulgate, the Latin translation of Jerome. Jerome translated the Hebrew helel (bright or brilliant one) as "Lucifer," which was a reasonable Latin equivalent. The association is clearly in regards to King Nebuchadnezzar and is in reference to the Morning Star which is a title that Jesus uses for himself as well.

Revelation 22:16: "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Lucifer is mentioned in Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses", and the Roman poet Virgil mentions him as far back as 29 BCE. He is a Roman deity and in my opinion shouldn't be involved in the Abrahamic paradigm.

In Greek mythology, Hesperus, the Evening Star is the son of the dawn goddess Eos (Roman equivalent: Aurora) and brother of Eosphorus the Morning Star (Eosphoros "dawn-bearer"; also Phosphorus, Lucifer "light-bearer"), further demonstrates that Lucifer is not a Satan or a fallen angel (which comes from the Book of Enoch).

If the word ‘Lucifer' is treated as ‘morning star' in Isa 14:12, then this is a denial of the deity of Christ. As in Revelation 22:16: "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

The Vulgate uses the same word in contexts where it clearly has no reference to a fallen angel: 2 Peter 1:19 (meaning "morning star"), Job 11:17 ("the light of the morning").

The KJV translators did not actually translate the Hebrew word as ‘Lucifer.' This word occurs only in the "Hebrew" Old Testament. They simply duplicated the word used in the Latin Vulgate that translated.

In the Vulgate, Isa 14:12 reads as follows: "quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes." Lucifer in this context is not a proper name but the Latin word for ‘morning star.'

Morning Star' literally refers to Venus, but metaphorically it is being associated with earthly kings, emperors, and pagan deities. Peter uses this word to show that the real morning star was Jesus, not Caesar. In Isaiah 14:12 it references the Babylonian king as the morning star and predicts his fall.

To associate the Morning Star with Lucifer (a Roman pagan deity) and thus with Satan/Devil is then calling Jesus (2 Peter 1:19) the devil, and we don't want that!

Click to expand...

Benoni said:

I see we are in agreement

Click to expand...

Benoni said:

No. I perfer not to agree with a thing you said.

Click to expand...

Yahyaa Waahid said:

Peace, Riverwolf,

Well, my saying "trying to be your own God" was meant for the particular case of the person I was talking to. I don't say that all atheists try to be their own God but I believe that some of them do.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

Click to expand...

ruffen said:

I don't understand the reasoning why you think that I personally am trying to be my own God either. There is no God in my opinion, so that pretty much excludes the possibility that I might be God, doesn't it?

And you didn't answer how one can know that the God whose presence one feels, is a true God and not a false one.

Click to expand...

Benoni said:

Feeling are great but knowing is what needs to happen.

I like how Ray Prinzing has said it: "Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord,... and then will I profess unto them, I never knew you." (Matt. 7:22-23). Know-- the Greek word is "ginosko" meaning: to know by experience. To have an intimate understanding and knowledge of another, based upon experience with them. When you have a deep communion with one, sharing the secrets of their heart, you come to know the nature and character of a person. This is far more than merely sharing surface opinions, like "it's a nice day," or, "looks like it might rain," "let's go for a cup of coffee and chat a bit." That's not coming to KNOW a person. But when you walk with them through deep trials, share their grief and joy, and become vulnerable because you are openly exposing your inner self to them-- then you get to really know someone.

When you KNOW HIM by experience, in the intimate knowledge of His love, of His grace, of His mercy, and He reveals to you an understanding of His plan and purpose, then other people can impute to Him all sorts of strange ideas of what "God is like," with doctrines that deny Him as He truly IS, and you can simply say to them, "You do not KNOW Him! He is nothing like you say. You charge Him with false motives and gross distortions of His character."

When there is nothing in common, no intelligent appreciation for the same things, no mutual understanding of things, then we are AS FOREIGNERS, of a different breed, a species that they cannot relate to, and they will look at you, and simply say, "I don't know you." You are a stranger.

Certainly HIS NATURE is foreign to the world, and as it becomes our nature also, we are to them as "pilgrims and strangers." But, John writes, "Now are we the sons (Greek, children) of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be. It is not yet made manifest! This WHAT suggests something unspeakable, contained in the likeness of God. There are marvels in Him which are yet to be revealed, beyond all we can ask or think. "We don't know what we shall become in the future. We only know that, IF REALITY WERE TO BREAK THROUGH, we should reflect His likeness, for we should see Him as He really is!" (Phillips translation).
Ah, no man can tell you today the real WHAT-- what we shall be. There are various speculations-- where revelation ends, speculations begin-- but the mind of man cannot conceive THE WHAT of God. He is so ALL GOD, and we are yet so human, that except for the small glimpses He gives of Himself to us, we do not know what we shall become. But this much we do know, BECAUSE WE ARE HIS CHILDREN, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM. And when reality breaks through, "Then shall I know even as also I am known." (1 Cor. 13:12).

Click to expand...

mystic64 said:

Awesome post! And then, "You are in this world, but not of this world."

Click to expand...

Benoni said:

Ray is one of the deepers teachers I know.

Click to expand...

Benoni said:

From your perspective, the Bible is pretty clear that God created Lucifer an anointed cherub ( Ezekiel 28:14)

Or anointed angel same thought.

But let’s look at: II Cor. 11:14. It says Satan is able to transform himself into an angel of light, but according to the Greek, the word is not transform -- it is MASQUERADE (Strong's). This is as close as he has ever been to being light -- as a masquerading actor.

Satan is masquerading as an angel of light.

Wow. God Word even tells us.

The word LUCIFER is used only ONCE in the entirety of the Bible, which is found in Isaiah
14:12, It reads, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning!" This
so very often and little understood word comes from the Hebrew word HEYLEL which simply
means SHINING ONE (Young's Concordance), MORNING STAR (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance),
BRIGHT STAR or SPLENDID STAR (Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon). etc. LUCIFER is the Latin word which was translated from heylel. Heylel is not a proper noun but is a word that
Tells us something about the one spoken of. The Hebrew does not indicate this is a
Personal name, not in the remotest sense; nonetheless, the Latin translators rendered
it as such.

So you think that word spoiler in Isaiah 54:16 is in reference to human enemies of Israel rather than Satan.
I disagree. Isaiah 54:16 is speaking of Satan, for Satan is a liar a murderer and waster and that is how God created him not as a MASQUERADE angel. Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

You claim: "Satan was created as a holy angel. Isaiah 14:12 possibly gives Satan’s pre-fall name as Lucifer.
But Satan is never mentioned in Isaiah 14:12 and seeing : II Cor. 11:14. Declares Satan masquerading as an angel of light is Lucifer Satan????.


Ezekiel 28:12-14 describes Satan as having been created a cherubim, apparently the highest created angel. He became arrogant in his beauty and status and decided he wanted to sit on a throne above that of God

Never mentions Satan again. I see this as Adam not Satan. Adam fell from God’s grace Satan is masquerading as an angel of light.


1 Timothy 3:6) says the man will fall same condemnation as the devil. It does not say Satan fell.

You better look again at these verse I just posted it looks like Satan has deceived you for Satan is a liar from his beginning and that is the way God made him as a murderer a ;iar, a deciver and never and angel.

Click to expand...

Ingledsva said:

Don't you find it rather strange that you have to use a new religion's hell/satan
ideas to try to make the Tanakh Satan mesh with your ideas.

They are totally different beings.


*

Click to expand...

Ingledsva said:

Don't you find it rather strange that you have to use a new religion's hell/satan ideas to try to make the Tanakh Satan mesh with your ideas.

They are totally different beings.

Click to expand...

Benoni said:

Not at all. I know God's Word in ways you will never see.


My view of Satan is from the Word of God.

His is from human language which is part of it but he's leaving God out just like you.

Click to expand...

Ingledsva said:

Actually you are trying to mesh two different religions. The Satan of Tanakh is not the Satan/Lucifer of the New Testament.


*

Click to expand...

Benoni said:

Have you ever read anything from J preston Eby

Click to expand...

mystic64 said:

No, to my knowledge I have not. To be honest with you I have not read very much of today's Christian literature. God talks to me just like he does them, it is just that I do not write about it. And if I did my message would be simple, "The only way you can truely approach Father God is through absolute faith and innocence, everything else just throws up barriers between one's self and Father God that have to be worked through. One can approach Lord Jesus though, because He is way easier to establish a relationship with than Father God and over time a relationship with Father God will become a part of your relationship with Lord Jesus. In the meantime you just don't worry about a relationship with Father God."

Click to expand...