• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

How can you tell God apart from Satan?

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Am I to continue to instil within everyone what LHP means and what Luciferianism means?
Just because YOU can't seem to read and comprehend what Left Hand Path mean, does not give you the right to endlessly define without gnosis, what the LHP is.
 

ruffen

Active Member
It seems to revolve around black or white magic, or at least magic if you dismiss the notion that it must either be "good" or "bad".

I'd like to see a trick, please. Seriously, I'd like to see real results of magic or real evidence that any of this is true.
 

s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
First of all, I don't believe in God, and I don't believe in Satan, so this is purely hypothetical and a question to those who believe.

Not to be rude, but only to understand better…

…”believe” in both, or neither?

If Satan exists, wouldn't he be the one tempting you with eternal good life in a very nice place? Wouldn't he be the one trying to win the "propaganda war" with the good God by having a Holy Book or Scripture or Bible or Quran or Torah written to tell people what they need to do in order to get to this nice place he promises us?
I dunno. Care to share your insights in this?

Wouldn't that also explain why said scriptures tell stories about people sacrificing their own children in order to show their obedience to their Lord, and encourage people to blindly follow any command from the Lord instead of thinking for themselves and teach the Lord a thing or two about morality?
No

How do we know that this Lord is good and not evil?
Perhaps you know? If so, please share.

If you were Satan and wanted to lure millions into worshipping you, wouldn't you claim to be God and warn about horrible punishments if people didn't follow your lead?
Really? Umm, no, I’d recognize the human capacities of reason, and offer a more compelling argument that “pure faith” demands.

And if you feel the presence of God in your life or in your soul, how can you know that this is the real God and not "the deceiver" that Satan is?
So…only exact change in bus fare is accepted here?

Wouldn't the more "morally challenged" stories and passages and inconsistencies and logical fallacies in the scriptures be such a hint that if a supernatural being is behind it, it might not be a loving God but something far less pleasant?
Perhaps you inquire of an audience directly motivated by beliefs rooted in faith, not others that look to experimental and discernible facts… as opposed to simplistic (albeit “inexplicable”) prima fasciae evidences otherwise crafting and supporting BS conclusions that only seem compelling to those willing to claim belief alone as “evidence” and “proof”.

Please allow that humans are better than that… :)
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Sure you can choose to see it that way, or Satan was playing the role God had given him.

It was God who pointed out Job afterwards.
God:"where have you come from"
Satan: "From traveling the world"
God:"Oh have you seen my servant Job?"

It was God who pointed out Job, it is with Gods permission that the adversary challenges Job. Both the adversary and God indicate that it is "God stretching his hand out"

Ha Satan a divine tool.

No really...I see it as confrontation.
'From whence comest thou'.... would be more like....'What are you doing here?'

The sons of God did gather to present themselves and with them came the devil.

It was God that made the objection.
Job is mentioned as a comparison.....as if to say...
I would prefer the least of my servants to your presence.

The devil would take that as an insult...not being counted as a son of God.
...to be less than a servant...

That's how I see it.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
It seems to revolve around black or white magic, or at least magic if you dismiss the notion that it must either be "good" or "bad".

I'd like to see a trick, please. Seriously, I'd like to see real results of magic or real evidence that any of this is true.

The problem Ruffen is that by the time you see the results, it is to late. There are not very many of them, but some of these kinds of people can do stuff that is unexplainable. They can "nudge" things in a way that things happen that one would wish didn't happen. Some of these people are real. Most are not real and they just get to have a feeling of power because they are associated with one or more of these "paths" even though they have no idea how the path actually works. Treading somewhat carefully when dealing with these kinds of people whether they may be real or not, is my suggestion. I have spent most of my life studying this stuff, mostly from the defensive side of things, and some folks are real even though most folks are not. And by the time you find out that they are real you are pretty much up to your neck in stuff that you would rather not have to experience.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
It seems to revolve around black or white magic, or at least magic if you dismiss the notion that it must either be "good" or "bad".
Magic(k) is neither good or evil, the intention of the one performing the magic(k) defines whether it is good or evil.

I'd like to see a trick, please. Seriously, I'd like to see real results of magic or real evidence that any of this is true.
Since 'magic' is commonly known as 'stage magic', you can search probably millions of youtube videos and find what you are looking for.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Miz Chrossfire you under estimate yourself :) , you know a lot of stuff. There is also a crystal ball called the "mind's eye", and yes :) looking into that crystal ball will turn you inside out. Which is why most folks say, "To heck with that!" and I do not blame them one bit. Constantly gazing into the "mind's eye" is not for the weak kneed or for the uninitiated. One should not do this at home :) for professionals only I guess.
I thought I'd have a look, and aside from the here and now stuff like sensory information, there was nothing. Blank. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Then I started feeling joy over nothing being there. (Which I recognized as part of the jnana cycle.)

I couldn't perceive whether I was actually perceiving nothing or whether I wasn't perceiving anything. I don't know if this qualifies as the jnana of neither-perception-or-non-perception, but that doesn't really matter.

Getting joy from nothing--that's priceless.

Thank you. :bow:
 

mystic64

nolonger active
I thought I'd have a look, and aside from the here and now stuff like sensory information, there was nothing. Blank. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Then I started feeling joy over nothing being there. (Which I recognized as part of the jnana cycle.)

I couldn't perceive whether I was actually perceiving nothing or whether I wasn't perceiving anything. I don't know if this qualifies as the jnana of neither-perception-or-non-perception, but that doesn't really matter.

Getting joy from nothing--that's priceless.

Thank you. :bow:

From the Wikipedia:
Goal of jnana-yoga

As used in the Bhagavad Gita, the Advaita philosopher Adi Shankara gave primary importance to jñāna yoga as "knowledge of the absolute" (Brahman), while the Vishishtadvaita commentator Ramanuja regarded knowledge only as a condition of devotion.[3] In the Bhagavad Gita (13.3) Krishna says that jñāna consists of properly understanding kshetra (the field of activity—that is, the body) and kshetra-jna (the knower of the body—that is, the soul). Later in the Gita (13.35) Krishna emphasizes that a transcendentalist must understand the difference between these two.[4] Sri Ganapatrao Maharaj Kannur emphasizes the significance of knowing self so as to know the supreme and that it is essential to vanquish the ego and the identification with the body.
----------------
The area or state of being of "Nothing" opens one up to the "Everything" and being opened up to the "Everything" without attachment (the need to understand) causes one to feel joy. Also being opened up to the "Everything" causes one to begin to download the knowledge of the "Everything". Over time your mind will automatically process this information and each time it does you will experience a cognitive leap. Sometimes (actually most of time in my experience) the area of nothing will become black. Worry not about this because it just means that you have stepped deep into the "unknown" and black is the only way that one's mind can understand the experience. As your mind automatically processes this information being downloaded (you feel like you are just waking up and becoming aware of things that you already know) you will begin to understand the knowledge that the yogis are talking about.


Miz Crossfire, you are doing well and where you are at is the beginning of it all and the beginning of where most folks spend their lives attempting to get to.
 
Last edited:

mystic64

nolonger active
Actually, I did a typo and typed "jnana" where I should have typed "jhana." :eek:

Dhyana in Buddhism

Ok, you will still have the same experience whether you are approaching it from a Buddhism or a yogi approach. Samadhi is the goal for everybody whether they are yogi or Buddhist. One does not need to believe that there is a Supreme Being to achieve samadhi and through samadhi one eventually becomes the Supreme Being which is why the yogis call it "self realization". The important part Crossfire is that you have reached the beginning where it all starts to happen (which is actually the hard part) and the more time and grade that you have with the experience the more you will understand and become the "Everything" whether the "Everything" is a being or not.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
Actually, I did a typo and typed "jnana" where I should have typed "jhana." :eek:

Dhyana in Buddhism

http://www.lovespells.me/page-image/isis-love-spells.gif

As an aid to meditation you might find this picture interesting. While gazing into the mind's eye with no need for understanding (doing the meditation that you are doing) meditate on the area above the nose of the figure in this picture and become/feel the picture at the same time. While you are doing this feel a gentle breeze ruffling the feathers under the arms. What I am suggesting is how the Egyptians achieved advanced states of samadhi fairly rapidly :) . And also what you are doing is a physical immortality/extended life span meditation. So if you continue doing what you are doing you could end up out living a lot of folks.
 
First of all, I don't believe in God, and I don't believe in Satan, so this is purely hypothetical and a question to those who believe.

If Satan exists, wouldn't he be the one tempting you with eternal good life in a very nice place? Wouldn't he be the one trying to win the "propaganda war" with the good God by having a Holy Book or Scripture or Bible or Quran or Torah written to tell people what they need to do in order to get to this nice place he promises us?

Wouldn't that also explain why said scriptures tell stories about people sacrificing their own children in order to show their obedience to their Lord, and encourage people to blindly follow any command from the Lord instead of thinking for themselves and teach the Lord a thing or two about morality? How do we know that this Lord is good and not evil?

If you were Satan and wanted to lure millions into worshipping you, wouldn't you claim to be God and warn about horrible punishments if people didn't follow your lead?

And if you feel the presence of God in your life or in your soul, how can you know that this is the real God and not "the deceiver" that Satan is?

Wouldn't the more "morally challenged" stories and passages and inconsistencies and logical fallacies in the scriptures be such a hint that if a supernatural being is behind it, it might not be a loving God but something far less pleasant?

Greetings, ruffen,

I only read the first two paragraphs but I have to tell you as someone who believes in God, your atheism is hurting you in my humble opinion. I'm not trying to insult or hurt you, but trying to be your own God doesn't work.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid
 
Explain your reasoning behind the idea that atheism = a person being his own God. Last I checked, all atheism meant was a lack of belief in God/Gods.

Peace, Riverwolf,

Well, my saying "trying to be your own God" was meant for the particular case of the person I was talking to. I don't say that all atheists try to be their own God but I believe that some of them do.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid
 

InChrist

Free4ever
God speaks truth/ satan lies

God humbles/satan humiliates

God judges rightly/satan accuses

God is merciful/satan is cruel

God offers freedom/satan brings bondage

God promises hope/satan causes despair

God gives peace/satan inspires conflict

God is love/satan is hate

God is life/satan is death
 

Benoni

Well-Known Member
God speaks truth/ satan lies

God humbles/satan humiliates

God judges rightly/satan accuses

God is merciful/satan is cruel

God offers freedom/satan brings bondage

God promises hope/satan causes despair

God gives peace/satan inspires conflict

God is love/satan is hate

God is life/satan is death

Very good.

Satan is not Lucifer. I believe Satan has deceived the whole Christian system to believe Satan was NOT a fallen angel.


Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.


Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNING and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..


I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?

Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel.

This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men. If God created Satan as a murderer or liar from His beginning then how could be be an angel; you cannot have two beginnings.



 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Peace, Riverwolf,

Well, my saying "trying to be your own God" was meant for the particular case of the person I was talking to. I don't say that all atheists try to be their own God but I believe that some of them do.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

Fair enough.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Very good.

Satan is not Lucifer. I believe Satan has deceived the whole Christian system to believe Satan was NOT a fallen angel.


Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.


Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNINGand abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING.For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..


I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?

Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel.

This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men. If God created Satan as a murderer or liar from His beginning then how could be be an angel; you cannot have two beginnings.



From my perspective, the Bible is pretty clear that God created Lucifer an anointed cherub( Ezekiel 28:14) ... who then became filled with violence and iniquity and sinned, becoming a wicked fallen angel(Ezekiel 28:15-16). This concept originates from the biblical scriptures and not the RCC. I would say that Jesus and the apostles used the expression "from the beginning" to indicate that from the beginning of earth's history (starting in the garden) satan has been a liar and a murderer.

I think that word spoiler in Isaiah 54:16 is in reference to human enemies of Israel rather than satan.

"Satan was created as a holy angel. Isaiah 14:12 possibly gives Satan’s pre-fall name as Lucifer. Ezekiel 28:12-14 describes Satan as having been created a cherubim, apparently the highest created angel. He became arrogant in his beauty and status and decided he wanted to sit on a throne above that of God (Isaiah 14:13-14; Ezekiel 28:15; 1 Timothy 3:6). Satan’s pride led to his fall. Notice the many “I will” statements in Isaiah 14:12-15. Because of his sin, God permanently removed Satan from his exalted position and role."

Read more: Who is Satan?
 
Top