• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus as a creation

Muffled

Jesus in me
This "firstborn of all creation" is a reference to the resurrection of Jesus.

Jesus is the first of all creation to be resurrected - well, at least the first Son of God to be resurrected, opening up the way for all creation to be renewed in the same manner.

This conventional interpretation is found everywhere online if you Google: Jesus firstborn creation resurrection. I suggest both Google and Google Books searches for authoritative commentaries.

i believe there is no birth at resurrection.

I believe a renewal is not a birth.

I have never heard it before. It must travel in different circles from those I have trod. At any rate I believe a proliferation of bad logic doesn't improve the logic.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Jesus was a plant??
No, but we're talking chromosomes. Its possible to have two sets. Rather than half from God and half from his mother, he could have 46 from God and 46 from his mother which would allow for him to be fully God and fully man.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. All what trouble?

Knocking up a young girl in a culture that would punish you for having children outside of marriage.

Given the time that Joseph would discover Mary's pregnancy...it would have been obvious to a lot of people that Jesus was not his son.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
No, but we're talking chromosomes. Its possible to have two sets. Rather than half from God and half from his mother, he could have 46 from God and 46 from his mother which would allow for him to be fully God and fully man.

True, I mean God can do anything God wants, but if we are talking biology, it doesn't work. The female egg carries 23, the male sperm carries 23, those combinations give 46. For Mary to produce 46 would make Jesus essentially a clone of her, the only thing that would be required is the gene on the Y chromosome that helps activate the production of testosterone which occurs at week 9 to 12. If that isn't active the union will produce a female.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
FranklinMichaelV.3., good job!

True, I mean God can do anything God wants, but if we are talking biology, it doesn't work. The female egg carries 23, the male sperm carries 23, those combinations give 46. For Mary to produce 46 would make Jesus essentially a clone of her, the only thing that would be required is the gene on the Y chromosome that helps activate the production of testosterone which occurs at week 9 to 12. If that isn't active the union will produce a female.
No, no, no! God would provide a Y chromosome! Biologically it would be much better than just 23 from God and 23 from Mary. Think scientifically, man! Ok, if it were you would you rather have 23 chromosomes from God or 46? That's 46 divine chromosomes.
 
Last edited:

Muffled

Jesus in me
Well, if He was "fully human," He'd have had to have 46 chromosomes, or a double strand of 23.

i believe however it isn't God who says He is fully human but man who says it. I believe the Bible is mute on whether He is or isn't.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
FranklinMichaelV.3., good job!

No, no, no! God would provide a Y chromosome! Biologically it would be much better than just 23 from God and 23 from Mary. Think scientifically, man! Ok, if it were you would you rather have 23 chromosomes from God or 46? That's 46 divine chromosomes.

Lol

this brings to mind Midichlorians...but of course this begs the question...why would God need Chromosomes.

I mean a virgin birth back in the day would not have been impossible to believe, but the idea of how human birth worked back then was also very different from what we know today.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Maybe He got the Y chromosome from His Father. ;)

I believe the Father is spirit and not flesh so it can't be obtained that way. I believe it has to be created and that leaves the door open for God to be creative ie do something a little different from 100% human.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I know that Mormon beliefs are different than "mainstream" Christianity, but it is rather Odd that God went through all that trouble when it would have been just as easy to manifest on earth for the Israelite's as he did for Abraham that one occasion.

I believe it was to fulfill the prophecy as a sign to Israel. If Jesus jsut appeared know one would know where He came from but by coming as a miracle, He has a witness in Mary.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
i believe however it isn't God who says He is fully human but man who says it. I believe the Bible is mute on whether He is or isn't.
Actually, I think you're right. The Bible doesn't actually say that, at least not in those words. I do believe that Jesus was fully human, though. I don't think he was different than any other human in His physical makeup. Obviously, though, He was also the Son of God and therefore had all of God's divine attributes.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Knocking up a young girl in a culture that would punish you for having children outside of marriage.
That's the point of the Virgin Birth. I don't believe Mary was "knocked up" by anyone. I believe she was a virgin. (I don't believe, however, that she remained a virgin throughout her life -- not that that makes any difference to this particular discussion.)
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Actually, I think you're right. The Bible doesn't actually say that, at least not in those words. I do believe that Jesus was fully human, though. I don't think he was different than any other human in His physical makeup. Obviously, though, He was also the Son of God and therefore had all of God's divine attributes.

I think Paul makes mentions of it. The divinity of Jesus as well...is one of those "not really said explicitly"
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
I believe it was to fulfill the prophecy as a sign to Israel. If Jesus jsut appeared know one would know where He came from but by coming as a miracle, He has a witness in Mary.

It would have certainly differentiated him from others who claim divinity, if he had just appeared.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Actually, I think you're right. The Bible doesn't actually say that, at least not in those words. I do believe that Jesus was fully human, though. I don't think he was different than any other human in His physical makeup. Obviously, though, He was also the Son of God and therefore had all of God's divine attributes.

The evidence does seem to indicate that He is human in that nothing is reported about Him as being strange other than His power over wind and waves (Mark 4:41 And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?) which is from His divinty not His humanity.

If I were God I would get rid of the sex drive because it would just be a distraction and complicate relationships. I am of the opinion that when we recive our new bodies that they won't have a sex drive since having children will be unneccesssary.
Considering that Jesus is never reputed to be be with a woman, this could be one explanation although it is also true that Jesus oveercame the world.

I once had a person argue that Jesus was a different person from the Father because He did not have the Father's attributes. I did my Biblical research on it finding verses that are evidence that He did have those attributes but the person was angry with me for challenging a cherished belief.


 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Quite a bit in Greek mythology lol
I believe the gods were able to clone people so I don't think that counts. They don't qualify as normal human beings. ie. The Greeks share the same myth with the Norse that the gods created man from earth and it fits into the Adam an Eve account as well. At any rate the gods predate Jesus by nearly 9,000 years although the Adam and Ecve account comes in around 5000 BC.
 
Top