Sure Jesus died for me, but what has he done for me today?

Now, this may seem like a silly subject, but I promise, I have a point.

Many people argue the following...
"If you want to see how much Jesus loves you, look at how he was tortured and crucified for your sins."

This statement bugs me, probably more than it should. Lets say some fun rich business man decides to give money to Arabia. Does this mean he cares for each individual person of Arabia equally, or does he care about the nation?

People say Jesus died for ME, well, for all of humanity, but can it be both? With everyone being an individual, can someone really do something that is best for all of humanity and something that is best for each person that makes up humanity?

I am sure that Jesus (our older brother) knew each one of us by name in heaven. He was created by God and lived with us in heaven.
I think I understand your point and I will see what I can do to answer in a way that may help you understand my views on this subject. I have often strayed onto this subject many times.
I think Christ weeps each time just one falls to the temptations of the devil. I believe he also feels overwhelming joy also when we choose his way to heaven. I think that his gift to us is an everlasting one and he continues to guide us today.
I tend to think that he picks and chooses his battles. Ex. When god flooded the earth there were many on the earth he knew that had chosen to sin rather than to do good. His choice was to sacrifice a few for the many. I can only imagine the pain that he goes through each day.
Floods happen each day and I feel he will always look out for those who have potential to do good.
Jesus cares for each individual and humanity. When christ was on the cross he thought of you individualy and all of humanity at the same moment. I think he is constantly giving to us. I feel he is the only one I can go to that understands me. He felt what anguish I have felt, and he has felt exactly the same kinds of pain. He gives to us constantly because he is the only one that has gone through exactly the same problems we feel every day. He understands the reasons and motives behind our actions because he knows our hearts.

Jesus didn't die on the cross, but people thought he died, he continued his mission out of Judaea. He was taken alive from cross and put into sepulchre, in which he was healed by some of his disciples, mainly nicodemus and Joseph of Arithmae. The death on the cross and resurrection is an historical and theological misconception. Even bible itself takes us to this conclusion.
and I think to die on the croos would be the worst way to teach the truth to the people. He must be alive to teach not dead.
And there are great works about this issue, I am quite serious about that he was not dead when he was taken from cross.

Regards.

Yeah uhuh Ryan's an agnostic man there's not much point in that diatribe and it's completely off topic.

Well, if you wanna look at it from a Christian perspective... He's still doing what he's always done. Taking the sins you commit every day upon himself. Until people stop sinning he'll continue to do that. From a Christian perspective.

Let's see...

The ship "Carpathia" was the first ship to respond to the Titanic's SOS. They rescued as many passangers as they could from the icy brine.

If you were one of the rescued, do you diminish your joy, your grattitude and your allegiance to the captain because he had the temerity to rescue as many as possible?

If you were one of the lost, do you BLAME the Carpathia for not doing their job? Do you blame them for you booking on the ill fated ship? Do you blame them for the lack of life boats on the Titanic?

If it were me, I would take the providence pretty personally. While I would be sad for those who perished, I would be STOKED that I was chosen to be alive. I would be sending the captain and crew a thank you note on every anniversary.

To be sure, I would not expect them to follow me around ensuring my constant safety either. Once was enough! But God doesn't just stop with the actual salvation: he continues with a constant transformation of me. Good thing too... I am in dire need of change.

Anastasios said:

Jesus didn't die on the cross, but people thought he died, he continued his mission out of Judaea. He was taken alive from cross and put into sepulchre, in which he was healed by some of his disciples, mainly nicodemus and Joseph of Arithmae. The death on the cross and resurrection is an historical and theological misconception. Even bible itself takes us to this conclusion.
and I think to die on the croos would be the worst way to teach the truth to the people. He must be alive to teach not dead.
And there are great works about this issue, I am quite serious about that he was not dead when he was taken from cross.

Regards.

Click to expand...

Making this up as you go along?

Ryan2065 said:

Now, this may seem like a silly subject, but I promise, I have a point.

Many people argue the following...
"If you want to see how much Jesus loves you, look at how he was tortured and crucified for your sins."

This statement bugs me, probably more than it should. Lets say some fun rich business man decides to give money to Arabia. Does this mean he cares for each individual person of Arabia equally, or does he care about the nation?

People say Jesus died for ME, well, for all of humanity, but can it be both? With everyone being an individual, can someone really do something that is best for all of humanity and something that is best for each person that makes up humanity?

Click to expand...

Do you really need the reason and efficacy of Jesus' death on the cross explained to you or are you just stirring the pot?

ChrisP said:

Yeah uhuh Ryan's an agnostic man there's not much point in that diatribe and it's completely off topic.

Well, if you wanna look at it from a Christian perspective... He's still doing what he's always done. Taking the sins you commit every day upon himself. Until people stop sinning he'll continue to do that. From a Christian perspective.

Click to expand...

The sins from today too? Incidently realize, that many people, self-included would never ever have given someone permission to be tortured and killed that way irregardless of the reason given. I am sure in fact that Jesus does not have the current consent of Islam, the Buddhist community, the non-theist population, Taoists, Jews and many others to die for "their sins". Ryan is being very liberal in giving Christians the idea that "Jesus died for everyones sins". Because that requires consent and only Christians, by accepting Jesus into their heart have consented.

Anastasios said:

Jesus didn't die on the cross, but people thought he died, he continued his mission out of Judaea. He was taken alive from cross and put into sepulchre, in which he was healed by some of his disciples, mainly nicodemus and Joseph of Arithmae. The death on the cross and resurrection is an historical and theological misconception. Even bible itself takes us to this conclusion.
and I think to die on the croos would be the worst way to teach the truth to the people. He must be alive to teach not dead.
And there are great works about this issue, I am quite serious about that he was not dead when he was taken from cross.

Regards.

Click to expand...

To die on the cross was the only way for our sins to be forgiven. If he was to live and tell people about God, what good would it do because there's no way for us to go to heaven anyway? Though people may think this, to say that the bible brings us to that conclusion is DEFINITELY not true.

In response to the original topic...
Jesus took on ALL the sins in the world when he died on the cross, not just general sin. He took on every single one of each person's sins on the cross. Let's just say that I were to curse someone, or any other sin you can think of. Well, Jesus died FOR ME CURSING SOMEONE. He also died for murders, shootings, any other sin you can think of. He died for every last sin.

netdoc said:

If you were one of the rescued, do you diminish your joy, your grattitude and your allegiance to the captain because he had the temerity to rescue as many as possible?

Click to expand...

For one we are only talking about the rescued people And while I would be grateful if the captain rescued me, I wouldn't pray to him every sunday and hope he cured cancer. He only did that one thing for me, one only pays someone back so much, they don't devote their lives to another when they are saved, and usually the person who saves you doesn't expect you to devote your life to them.

Netdoc said:

To be sure, I would not expect them to follow me around ensuring my constant safety either. Once was enough! But God doesn't just stop with the actual salvation: he continues with a constant transformation of me. Good thing too... I am in dire need of change.

Click to expand...

Last I saw no one follows me around ensuring my saftey, and I'm pretty sure no one follows you around ensuring your saftey. How exactly does God stay in our lives now? He saved our souls 2000 years ago and now plays psychologist to all of humanity?

robtex said:

The sins from today too? Incidently realize, that many people, self-included would never ever have given someone permission to be tortured and killed that way irregardless of the reason given. I am sure in fact that Jesus does not have the current consent of Islam, the Buddhist community, the non-theist population, Taoists, Jews and many others to die for "their sins". Ryan is being very liberal in giving Christians the idea that "Jesus died for everyones sins". Because that requires consent and only Christians, by accepting Jesus into their heart have consented.

Click to expand...

Here's an LDS perspective.

We all lived with God the Father and Jesus in a pre-existance. They came up with a plan whereby all would come to earth, receive bodies, and go through experiences that help us progress and learn. Because we would make mistakes, we would be unclean and not able to return to God's perfect place. Someone was needed to clean us. That person was Jesus.

Lucifer came up with a different plan that he presented to God the Father and all of us in the pre-existance. He said let make an earth, send everyone there, but don't allow them to make mistakes. That way, all will be clean and all can return to Heaven. The one caveat to his plan was this: Lucifer would get all the glory and become God, essentially replacing the Father.

God stuck with the first plan.

Now there was a bit of a war in the pre-existance with us fighting over which plan we wanted. Two-thirds choose God's plan and one-third choose Lucifer's. Lucifer and that one-third was cast out and God implemented His plan.

The point I wanted to make is this: The fact you and everyone else is on this earth today shows that in the pre-existance you consented to God's plan. That was our first "test" if you will and you passed as did every other human who has lived, is living, or will live. Right now we're all going through our second "test." Good luck.

Ryan2065 said:

He only did that one thing for me, one only pays someone back so much,

Click to expand...

Obviously how we differ fundamentally. Gratitude comes rather easily to me because I appreciate it.

Ryan2065 said:

Last I saw no one follows me around ensuring my saftey, and I'm pretty sure no one follows you around ensuring your saftey. How exactly does God stay in our lives now? He saved our souls 2000 years ago and now plays psychologist to all of humanity?

Click to expand...

He won't follow you and help you if you don't ask him to. I enjoy his company and input on a continual basis.

robtex said:

The sins from today too? Incidently realize, that many people, self-included would never ever have given someone permission to be tortured and killed that way irregardless of the reason given. I am sure in fact that Jesus does not have the current consent of Islam, the Buddhist community, the non-theist population, Taoists, Jews and many others to die for "their sins". Ryan is being very liberal in giving Christians the idea that "Jesus died for everyones sins". Because that requires consent and only Christians, by accepting Jesus into their heart have consented.

Click to expand...

This is true, but what I posted is how the Christians I know in NZ see it. He died for everyone whether or not they like it ("from a Christian perspective")

nutshell said:

Here's an LDS perspective.

We all lived with God the Father and Jesus in a pre-existance. They came up with a plan whereby all would come to earth, receive bodies, and go through experiences that help us progress and learn. Because we would make mistakes, we would be unclean and not able to return to God's perfect place. Someone was needed to clean us. That person was Jesus.

Lucifer came up with a different plan that he presented to God the Father and all of us in the pre-existance. He said let make an earth, send everyone there, but don't allow them to make mistakes. That way, all will be clean and all can return to Heaven. The one caveat to his plan was this: Lucifer would get all the glory and become God, essentially replacing the Father.

God stuck with the first plan.

Now there was a bit of a war in the pre-existance with us fighting over which plan we wanted. Two-thirds choose God's plan and one-third choose Lucifer's. Lucifer and that one-third was cast out and God implemented His plan.

The point I wanted to make is this: The fact you and everyone else is on this earth today shows that in the pre-existance you consented to God's plan. That was our first "test" if you will and you passed as did every other human who has lived, is living, or will live. Right now we're all going through our second "test." Good luck.

Click to expand...

Hmmm. Interesting. A bit unconventional, but worth considering. Can you provide any scriptural support for this viewpoint?

sandy whitelinger said:

Making this up as you go along?

Click to expand...

Daniel Burbank said:

To die on the cross was the only way for our sins to be forgiven. If he was to live and tell people about God, what good would it do because there's no way for us to go to heaven anyway? Though people may think this, to say that the bible brings us to that conclusion is DEFINITELY not true

Click to expand...

http://www.alislam.org/library/dcross.html
http://www.alislam.org/books/jesus-in-india/contents.html
http://www.alislam.org/library/jesus.html

Regards.

Squirt said:

Hmmm. Interesting. A bit unconventional, but worth considering. Can you provide any scriptural support for this viewpoint?

Click to expand...

Lucifer's role is described in Revelation 12. Of course, with everything in that book, it is very symbolic and can be difficult to interpret.

Also, we believe in latter-day revelation/scripture. We have an additional account of God speaking with Moses and it includes what I mentioned above. You can read the scriptures here: http://scriptures.lds.org/moses/4

Anastasios said:

Jesus didn't die on the cross, but people thought he died, he continued his mission out of Judaea. He was taken alive from cross and put into sepulchre, in which he was healed by some of his disciples, mainly nicodemus and Joseph of Arithmae. The death on the cross and resurrection is an historical and theological misconception. Even bible itself takes us to this conclusion.
and I think to die on the croos would be the worst way to teach the truth to the people. He must be alive to teach not dead.
And there are great works about this issue, I am quite serious about that he was not dead when he was taken from cross.

Regards.

Click to expand...

I'd be interested in reading the scripture in the Bible which supposedly disproves that Christ died on the cross and was resurected. Please share.

nutshell said:

Lucifer's role is described in Revelation 12. Of course, with everything in that book, it is very symbolic and can be difficult to interpret.

Also, we believe in latter-day revelation/scripture. We have an additional account of God speaking with Moses and it includes what I mentioned above. You can read the scriptures here: http://scriptures.lds.org/moses/4

Click to expand...

That's interesting. I've always interpreted Chapter 12 of Revelation to describe Satan's role in events that have to occur. Interesting to learn of the LDS interpretation of that verse. (I'm not trying to debate it or anything.)

dawny0826 said:

I'd be interested in reading the scripture in the Bible which supposedly disproves that Christ died on the cross and was resurected. Please share.

Click to expand...

It most like not be from YOUR bible but from the Quran

AlanGurvey said:

It most like not be from YOUR bible but from the Quran

Click to expand...

Well, that makes sense. And if that's the case, I didn't know until just now (thank you, Mr. Gurvey) that the Quran is referred to as "the bible".