Musical instruments...

Linus · Feb 17, 2006

I'm putting this in the CoC section becuase it is a pretty big issue within the churches of Christ. Being a member, I have heard this come up over and over almost all of my life. But I guess it can apply to all christian churches as well so I will open up the discussion to all christian denominations.

Here goes...

Do you believe that the use of musical instruments should be allowed in praise to God? Why? Do you believe only a capella music should be allowed? Why?

I am of the opinion that musical instruments should not be used in praise to God because I see neither command for nor example of it in the New Testament.

Anyone else?

Aqualung · Feb 17, 2006

I think they should be. There is also no command against it. Plus, it helps all us singers stay in tune, so our music is actually music, not some ... yucky ... stuff ...

dawny0826 · Feb 17, 2006

I don't attend a Church of Christ church, so I hope it's cool if I answer.

I don't see anything in the bible stating that I CAN'T incorporate musical instruments into praise and worship...so I see no harm at all in not doing so.

We rock out to contemporary Christian music at my church and it's awesome. Everyone gets excited and gets into the singing and you feel the Holy Spirit fall upon you like a cloud. It's truly awesome!

I don't see any harm in acapella as well. Although, our church prefers jamming out in numbers.

nutshell · Feb 17, 2006

Linus said:
I'm putting this in the CoC section becuase it is a pretty big issue within the churches of Christ. Being a member, I have heard this come up over and over almost all of my life. But I guess it can apply to all christian churches as well so I will open up the discussion to all christian denominations.

Here goes...

Do you believe that the use of musical instruments should be allowed in praise to God? Why? Do you believe only a capella music should be allowed? Why?

I am of the opinion that musical instruments should not be used in praise to God because I see neither command for nor example of it in the New Testament.

Anyone else?

Musical instruments are fine. For an example of a musical instrument in the New Testament see Revelation 1:10. God's own voice is compared to a trumpet. If it can be associated with God then I don't have a problem with it.

Just out of curiosity, why do you reject the examples of instruments found in the Old Testament?

Linus · Feb 17, 2006

dawny0826 said:
I don't attend a Church of Christ church, so I hope it's cool if I answer.

Of course it is. I opened up the floor to all, so feel free. I wanted to hear some denominational opinions on the subject anyway.

dawny0826 said:
I don't see anything in the bible stating that I CAN'T incorporate musical instruments into praise and worship...so I see no harm at all in not doing so.

Aqualung said:
There is also no command against it.

These areguments are pretty typical and some that I expected to see. Bbut to you all I propse this: The story of Nadab and Abihu from Leviticus 10: 1Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took their respective firepans, and after putting fire in them, placed incense on it and offered strange fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. 2And fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD.

This story speaks volumes to me about worship to God. Not that we should offer fire sacrifices to God, neither that we will be struck dead, but rather that there is a way to worship God, and there is a way not to worship God. Nadab and Abihu were trying to please God. They were making an offering to God, but did something that was outside the commandment of God. They weren't instructed specifically to do what they did, but there was no commandment against it. Seems to be an example for us. Does that make sense?

Aqualung said:
Plus, it helps all us singers stay in tune, so our music is actually music, not some ... yucky ... stuff ...

I don't believe this is really a justifiable reason to worship with mechanical instruments. We don't use them in my church and we sound fine. In fact, I dare say we sound really good. At any rate, I don't see why God would care how well you sing as long as your heart is in it.

dawny0826 · Feb 17, 2006

Well...remember with Nadab and Abihu you're dealing with a different covenant.

We're no longer bound by the laws of the OT.

dawny0826 · Feb 17, 2006

dawny0826 said:
Well...remember with Nadab and Abihu you're dealing with a different covenant.

We're no longer bound by the laws of the OT.

The story of Nadab and Abihu reiterates the importance of obedience. I don't think it pertains to worship as much. I'm going to do a little reading tonight because this is very interesting.

Aqualung · Feb 17, 2006

Linus said:
At any rate, I don't see why God would care how well you sing as long as your heart is in it.

At any rate, I don't see why God would care if we use an instrument when we sing as long as your heart is in it.

Looking back at that OT example, don't you think Nadab's heart was in it?

Linus · Feb 17, 2006

dawny0826 said:
Well...remember with Nadab and Abihu you're dealing with a different covenant.

We're no longer bound by the laws of the OT.

I am perfectly aware of this. This story is an example. God's attitude toward His worship hasn't changed. The point is that Nadab and Abihu did something that they were not commanded to do, and God did not like it.

Aqualung said:
At any rate, I don't see why God would care if we use an instrument when we sing as long as your heart is in it.

Looking back at that OT example, don't you think Nadab's heart was in it?

The issue is not sincerity of the worshipper. I do copmletely believe that Nadab's and Abihu's hearts were in it. But as I said, the point is that they worshipped God in a manner that was not commanded of them, and God was not very pleased. Just like musical instruments today, there was no commandment against what they did. Yet God was still displeased with their worship despite how heartfelt it was...

Lindsey-Loo · Feb 17, 2006

This is what I believe about using instruments in worship:

http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com/sermons/date/2005/htm/20050731AM.htm

Plus, it helps all us singers stay in tune, so our music is actually music, not some ... yucky ... stuff ...

May I point out that God probably doesn't care how bad or good our singing is as long as we are giving praise to him.

And were you implying that a capella music is "yucky stuff"? If that is what you truly believe, you probably have not been around it much...a capella music is actually quite beautiful. The links below are lovely examples of a capella music.

http://www.plymouth-church.com/real/songs/faith_is_the_victory.ram

http://www.plymouth-church.com/real/songs/get_to_heaven_2.ram

http://www.plymouth-church.com/real/songs/soldiers_arise.ram

http://www.plymouth-church.com/real/songs/low_in_the_grave.ram

You can hear them best on a low volume. It doesn't sound so staticky (is that even a word?) that way.

Linus, I didn't know you were a member of the church of Christ! Do you like any of the above songs? Soldiers of Christ Arise is one of my favorites.

I must admit, I had been to hesitant to post this question over instrumental music, because I knew it was such a controversial topic. Thanks for this thread, though!!!

Aqualung · Feb 17, 2006

May I point out that God probably doesn't care how bad or good our singing is as long as we are giving praise to him.

That was just a joke. I thought Linus was the only one who maybe didn't get it, but I know god doesn't care how we sound.

Lindsey-Loo · Feb 17, 2006

That was just a joke.

Ohhhhhhhhhh....sorry.

Green Gaia · Feb 17, 2006

I grew up in the Church of Christ, and it's ban on musical instruments (being a very musical child) was probably the first time I realized that my beliefs didn't jive with what was being taught to me at about the age of 8 or 9. It was all downhill from there...

Lindsey-Loo · Feb 17, 2006

I grew up in the Church of Christ, and it's ban on musical instruments (being a very musical child) was probably the first time I realized that my beliefs didn't jive with what was being taught to me at about the age of 8 or 9.

I love music as well, but since the Bible nowhere tells that using instruments is ok, I am willing to follow that, and keep musical instruments out of worship.

Linus · Feb 17, 2006

Christiangirl0909 said:
Linus, I didn't know you were a member of the church of Christ! Do you like any of the above songs? Soldiers of Christ Arise is one of my favorites.

I must admit, I had been to hesitant to post this question over instrumental music, because I knew it was such a controversial topic. Thanks for this thread, though!!!

Yep. Sure am. Thank you for that link to the sermon outline on this subject. And for the links to those songs. Soldiers of Christ arise is also one of my favorites.

Green Gaia · Feb 17, 2006

Christiangirl0909 said:
I love music as well, but since the Bible nowhere tells that using instruments is ok, I am willing to follow that, and keep musical instruments out of worship.

Yes, I know why CoC's ban musical instruments, and I don't really want to argue about it.
I just viewed things very differently, and in the end it was a good thing for me that my parents decided to leave that church. It wasn't a healthy one. A lot of controlling people trying to belittle and control other people going on.

Daniel Burbank · Feb 17, 2006

Not a member of the Church of Christ, but didn't David play the harp?

Linus · Feb 17, 2006

Daniel Burbank said:
Not a member of the Church of Christ, but didn't David play the harp?

Yep.

David also sacrificed animals to God. Are we permitted to do that as well? Looking back to the Old Testament yields little evidence or authority for us who are under the New Covenant.

Daniel Burbank · Feb 17, 2006

But God denounced sacrificing in the New Testament, because Jesus was sent to be the ultimate sacrifice, therefore animal sacrifice was no longer necessary. No where in the New Testament does it denounce instruments. In fact, Revelation 5:8,9 says "Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying "You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals, For You were slain..." and so on and so forth. It appears to me that they are praising God in song and using harps as well. Also in revelation, why would trumpets announce seven plagues if God didn't want them? It seems pretty clear to me that there's no evidence against playing musical instruments while worshipping God, especially if it's being done in heaven.

Lindsey-Loo · Feb 17, 2006

Yes, I know why CoC's ban musical instruments, and I don't really want to argue about it.

Ok, I'm cool with that. We all have our own beliefs!

Not a member of the Church of Christ, but didn't David play the harp?

Yes, but that was in the Old Testament before Christianity was established. See my link in the former post above for more details.

In fact, Revelation 5:8,9 says "Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying "You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals, For You were slain..." and so on and so forth.

See the following from the link I provided above:

II. Many find instrumental worship in symbolic pictures of Heaven.

A. The second place to which people turn to find instrumental worship is Heaven in Revelation 5:8; 14:2; 15:2. The thought from many is this: If God allowed worship through instruments of music under the Old Law and then is going to allow it in Heaven, why would we claim it is not allowed in the church today?

B. The question is whether or not these images in the book of Revelation actually provide equipping for instrumental worship for us living under the New Covenant. The first problem is taking these pictures of worship in Heaven at face value. Consider Revelation 5:8. The elders who held the harps are the ones mentioned in Revelation 4:4, 10. These elders are dressed in white and wearing golden crowns. They bow before the throne of God, casting away their golden crowns. Further, they have the golden bowls of incense. Does this literally describe the worship we participate in today? Are we supposed to wear white garments and crowns that we throw down? Certainly not. Those pictures are symbolic of purity and humility before God. And what about that burning incense? The text explains that the bowls of incense are not literal but represent the prayers of the saints. Can we, in this book so full of symbolism, take the symbols as authority for what we do today? Certainly not. Rather we must consider what these symbols represent. The bowls of incense represent prayer. We must pray, not burn incense.

C. Additionally, when we consider the context of Revelation 15:1-5, we find these symbols are borrowed from Old Testament worship, not because this was how New Testament Christians worshipped, but because the readers were familiar with Old Testament scriptures. If we use these pictures as authority for our worship, we are actually bringing the instruments into our worship from the Old Covenant, not from Heaven. We have already demonstrated the dangers of that.

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