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Prayer serves no purpose.
- Thread starter Mycroft
- Start date
Purpose is up to those who pray.
Sure, sure....there is no god listening.
But they get something out of it anyway.
Sure, sure....there is no god listening.
But they get something out of it anyway.
1) pray for something.
What precisely do you mean by "prayer?" What methods does it entail? What is the purpose of the prayer? In other words, what is its intended goal or purpose? These things vary, yes?
2) is it part of god's divine plan?
Huh?
This is not applicable to all religions that utilize a practice that goes under the header of "prayer." Chain of logic = broken.
2a) yes > prayer is redundant
2b) no > prayer is futile
3) There is no purpose to prayer.
Assumes intended goal and purpose of prayer was something that involved "god's divine plan." This is a potentially false assumption. Also assumes that the only possible benefits of prayer involve "god's divine plan." Also a false assumption. Also assumes narrow purpose for the behavior that may not correspond to the true meaningfulness derived from it by its practitioners.
In general, people don't do things that serve no purpose to them. Clearly, prayer serves a purpose for those who do it. Or they simply wouldn't do it.
What precisely do you mean by "prayer?" What methods does it entail? What is the purpose of the prayer? In other words, what is its intended goal or purpose? These things vary, yes?
2) is it part of god's divine plan?
Huh?
This is not applicable to all religions that utilize a practice that goes under the header of "prayer." Chain of logic = broken.
2a) yes > prayer is redundant
2b) no > prayer is futile
3) There is no purpose to prayer.
Assumes intended goal and purpose of prayer was something that involved "god's divine plan." This is a potentially false assumption. Also assumes that the only possible benefits of prayer involve "god's divine plan." Also a false assumption. Also assumes narrow purpose for the behavior that may not correspond to the true meaningfulness derived from it by its practitioners.
In general, people don't do things that serve no purpose to them. Clearly, prayer serves a purpose for those who do it. Or they simply wouldn't do it.
What I find most interesting here is that when you think of "pray" you think of "pay for something." That speaks volumes.
As for the rest, I sincerely recommend that you don't waste time on what you believe to be futile much as I won't waste time further discussing the matter with you.
I agree. It's interesting that many people tend to jump right to that "prayer is begging god(s) for stuff" instead of "prayer is communicating with god(s)" or "prayer is giving thanks/celebration to god(s)."
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
But a lot of folks do pray for god(s) for stuff. For loved ones to get better, or whatever. Point is if (in christian terms) it is in god's plan for said loved one to get better, you wasted your time praying, if it isn't, you wasted your time praying.
Thana
Lady
If you think prayer is only to ask for something of God, Then you don't know anything about prayer.
I believe prayer is a means to communicate our thoughts, concerns, joys, thankfulness, and requests to our loving Father, Jehovah. The Bible shows God listens to sincere prayers, and answers them. Thus, I believe we can form a trusting friendship with God by talking to him often. A child who receives good gifts is usually not taught merely to feel gratitude, but to express thanks for good gifts. (Philippians 4:6,7) The Bible gives examples of persons whose lives were saved by their earnest prayers that God answered. I bet they didn't think prayers are futile. (Acts 12:5-11, Isaiah 38:1-5)
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
Sure, okay. But god already knows everything you're going to say. So it's still a redundant system. You may as well say 'dear god. You know what I'm gonna say. Amen.' And chalk it up to 2 seconds of your life wasted instead of 2 minutes.
i.e., ...... he only meant to demean Christian prayer (as he understands it) - an important edit indeed.
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
On the contrary, scripture tells us that metaphorically, we are to endeavor to be mirrors reflecting the attributes of God.
And prayer is said to polish the mirror.
Peace,
Bruce
NobodyYouKnow
Misanthropist
You said 'only for Christians' but seeing as how a neo-pagan and Baha'i person has replied...
Prayer (true prayer) means to open one's spiritual heart up and thus become receptive to the 'grace of God'. It means to surrender one's mind and ego.
Any prayer asking for anything, usually won't be replied to. What's meant to happen will happen regardless.
Prayer (true prayer) means to open one's spiritual heart up and thus become receptive to the 'grace of God'. It means to surrender one's mind and ego.
Any prayer asking for anything, usually won't be replied to. What's meant to happen will happen regardless.
Tis simple.
People love to be right.
This means making others wrong.
To find things wrong, one must deduce things to criticize, even if done speciously.
Tis great fun to tell others what they believe.
Many believers do it to us too.
Tis human nature.
Do you like how I made a pointy looking paragraph?
Last edited:
Uberpod
Active Member
- then he doesn't know everything about prayer. A good bit of prayer is a plea and much of prayer that is praising the God is buttering the deity up and showing compliance which less directly says essentially "I am one of the good ones- I am worthy - be nice to me."
Indeed a lot of prayers DO ask something from God.
- please help the poor in the world
- please fix my child's disease
- please show me a sign of what to do
- please guide me spiritually
- please help me score the winning goal in this evening's football match
- please give me strength
etc. etc. etc.
To claim that prayer isn't about asking God for "favours" is not completely honest.
Also, if God is all-knowing, you can never hope to say anything to it that it doesn't already know, so it is basically pointless.
However, as some of you have pointed out, prayer is about connecting one self with the deity, to have a personal relationship with it, and to feel better. And in this respect, prayer may have a function, but then only as a psychological mechanism to feel better.
- please help the poor in the world
- please fix my child's disease
- please show me a sign of what to do
- please guide me spiritually
- please help me score the winning goal in this evening's football match
- please give me strength
etc. etc. etc.
To claim that prayer isn't about asking God for "favours" is not completely honest.
Also, if God is all-knowing, you can never hope to say anything to it that it doesn't already know, so it is basically pointless.
However, as some of you have pointed out, prayer is about connecting one self with the deity, to have a personal relationship with it, and to feel better. And in this respect, prayer may have a function, but then only as a psychological mechanism to feel better.
Thana
Lady
What do you base this off?
What made you come to this conclusion?
(Sorry if I sound blunt, But I'm just curious)
But this is quite typical of many of the discussions here on RF - it is kind of a strawman, that whatever anyone says about religion, someone will pop up and say that they personally don't believe in that exact way, even though the original post didn't speak to them but was more generally about how millions upon millions of humans actually practice religion.
For example, if someone posts "the concept of Satan is irrational", someone will pop up and answer "I don't believe in Satan". If someone posts "praying to God to achieve things is irrational" someone will answer "I don't believe in that kind of prayer". If someone posts "a literal interpretation of Scripture is easily refuted by science" someone will answer ""I don't believe in a literal interpretation of Scripture".
But the point is that there are people who do believe in satan, in praying to God for specific things, in a literal interpretation of Scripture, and there are hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people who do that.
So just claiming that "I personally don't believe that so therefore your argument is invalid" is a strawman.
For example, if someone posts "the concept of Satan is irrational", someone will pop up and answer "I don't believe in Satan". If someone posts "praying to God to achieve things is irrational" someone will answer "I don't believe in that kind of prayer". If someone posts "a literal interpretation of Scripture is easily refuted by science" someone will answer ""I don't believe in a literal interpretation of Scripture".
But the point is that there are people who do believe in satan, in praying to God for specific things, in a literal interpretation of Scripture, and there are hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people who do that.
So just claiming that "I personally don't believe that so therefore your argument is invalid" is a strawman.
Every time the Pope prays for the poor. Everytime an athlete kisses his or her cross necklace. Everytime churches join in prayer for someone who is ill or for victims of natural disasters.
You're not going to claim that this doesn't happen, are you?