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The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

Porque77

Porque77

The Gospel is God's Law
FranklinMichaelV.3 said:
Do you know all 615 laws?
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Many of the 613 laws of the Old Testament, are a burden that no one can bear. The Law of God as taught by Jesus Christ, is the true law of God. The Law that Jesus Christ teaches us is simple and merciful, is a light burden and a yoke bearable:

"Come to me , all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart , and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light"(Matthew 11:28-30)

 
F

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Porque77 said:
Many of the 613 laws of the Old Testament, are a burden that no one can bear. The Law of God as taught by Jesus Christ, is the true law of God. The Law that Jesus Christ teaches us is simple and merciful, is a light burden and a yoke bearable:

"Come to me , all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart , and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light"(Matthew 11:28-30)
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Do you know all of them?
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Porque77,

A yoke is a device placed onto animals, so they can do work. The yoke is light on the animal, yes, just like the law. Jesus rejected certain extra practices which he called 'Heavy' burdens. (Matthew 7:12), but these weren't the laws of Moses! The yoke of the laws of Moses he loved, because those laws work in favor of the person who keeps them rather than against them. They take the burden from your shoulders, placing it on wheels. This is plain both from people who keep the laws and the testimony of people in scripture who did. Jesus would not call these laws a burden, because the laws are a delight. He called them his yoke.

Did you read what Shermana posted about 'Fulfillment'? 'Fulfilling the law' refers to the purpose given to Israel through Abraham, which is to bless the world. Suppose for example that the law of Moses were abolished: That wouldn't bless the world, because the laws are a delight. Suppose that they were corrupt and needed to be changed? Then Jesus shouldn't have endorsed them so strongly, but he did endorse them. Suppose that the laws of Moses were not the same laws that Jesus taught, well then there is nothing to be done except to dismiss everything that Jesus said.

Mem Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long. (Psalm 119:97)
 
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roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
Sleeppy said:
Not only all prayers, but all things.
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I was taught differently. He is an example of a prayer that is similar to the Lord’s Prayer found in the Gospels of Mathew and Luke.
Prayer Of St Francis

used-2013-07-06-saint-francis-prayer-alkhall-anonymous-sobriety-recovery3.jpg
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
roger1440 said:
So if some guy prays that his next door neighbor drops dead so he can marry the dead guys wife, God might grant his pray?
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Yes. He may, or may not. Or, that man could go next door and kill him without praying.

So, if he goes without praying, who gave him the permission and the ability to kill?
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Porque77 said:
Many of the 613 laws of the Old Testament, are a burden that no one can bear. The Law of God as taught by Jesus Christ, is the true law of God. The Law that Jesus Christ teaches us is simple and merciful, is a light burden and a yoke bearable:

"Come to me , all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart , and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light"(Matthew 11:28-30)
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Which of the Laws do you consider to be a burden that no one can bear exactly? Specifically?

It seems the law against adultery is a big one a lot of Christians can't refrain from I suppose.

(Note: Laws about temple sacrifices and priestly rituals do not apply when there's no Temple or Priesthood, as in Babylon).
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
roger1440 said:
ok Sleepy, just checking.
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Jeremiah 31:28

And it hath been, as I watched over them to pluck up, And to break down, and to throw down, And to destroy, and to afflict; So do I watch over them to build, and to plant, An affirmation of the LORD.

Learn to look up at reality, otherwise you falsify yourself and your God.

Btw. 'Sleeppy' has two p's.
 
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Porque77

Porque77

The Gospel is God's Law
Brickjectivity said:
Suppose for example that the law of Moses were abolished: That wouldn't bless the world, because the laws are a delight. Suppose that they were corrupt and needed to be changed? Then Jesus shouldn't have endorsed them so strongly
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The Law that God had really gave to Moses was a delight and was not abolished, because the Law that God gave really Moses is the Law that Jesus taught us in the Gospel.

But the laws of the Old Testament who commanded men to do damage and kill other men, aren't a delight, and were abolished by Jesus Christ because they weren't the true law of God, do not contemplate the mercy and forgiveness because only were precepts of men. Jesus did not support those laws, but abolished them.

Many Old Testament commandments are contrary to the commandments of Jesus Christ because they were not true Law of God. The Law of God was changed by scribes, as the prophets said:

"... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes" (Jeremiah 8: 7-9).

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

 
Porque77

Porque77

The Gospel is God's Law
Shermana said:
Which of the Laws do you consider to be a burden that no one can bear exactly? Specifically?
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Many laws of the Old Testament are contrary to the law that Jesus taught us in the Gospel because do not contemplate the mercy and forgiveness. Therefore, they are an unbearable burden. Here are some of these Old Testament laws:

"And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is infamy: they shall burn him and them with fire, that there be no infamy among you". (Leviticus 20:14)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burned with fire". (Leviticus 21:9)

"And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour, as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him". (Leviticus 24:19-20)

" If a man have an unmanageable and rebellious son, who hearkeneth not unto the voice of his father, nor unto the voice of his mother, and they have chastened him, but he hearkeneth not unto them; then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; and they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is unmanageable and rebellious, he hearkeneth not unto our voice; he is a profligate and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. And thou shalt put evil away from thy midst; and all Israel shall hear and fear". (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

" When men fight together one with another, and the wife of the one come near to rescue her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and stretch out her hand, and seize him by his secret parts, thou shalt cut off her hand; thine eye shall not spare". (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

All these laws are contrary to the law that Jesus taught us in the Gospel, which command forgive, not to hurt anyone, no kill. Jesus Christ command us to have mercy. So, Jesus Christ, with His teaching of the Gospel (love, mercy and forgiveness), abolished all those cruel laws Old Testament, because they were not God's Law.

 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Porque77 said:
Many laws of the Old Testament are contrary to the law that Jesus taught us in the Gospel because do not contemplate the mercy and forgiveness. Therefore, they are an unbearable burden. Here are some of these Old Testament laws:

"And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is infamy: they shall burn him and them with fire, that there be no infamy among you". (Leviticus 20:14)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burned with fire". (Leviticus 21:9)

"And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour, as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him". (Leviticus 24:19-20)

" If a man have an unmanageable and rebellious son, who hearkeneth not unto the voice of his father, nor unto the voice of his mother, and they have chastened him, but he hearkeneth not unto them; then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; and they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is unmanageable and rebellious, he hearkeneth not unto our voice; he is a profligate and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. And thou shalt put evil away from thy midst; and all Israel shall hear and fear". (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

" When men fight together one with another, and the wife of the one come near to rescue her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and stretch out her hand, and seize him by his secret parts, thou shalt cut off her hand; thine eye shall not spare". (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

All these laws are contrary to the law that Jesus taught us in the Gospel, which command forgive, not to hurt anyone, no kill. Jesus Christ command us to have mercy. So, Jesus Christ, with His teaching of the Gospel (love, mercy and forgiveness), abolished all those cruel laws Old Testament, because they were not God's Law.
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I don't see Jesus saying anything that forbids the exaction of physical punishment. Are you referring to the interpolated Pericope Adulterae? Jesus says to never murder out of anger. I don't think you've actually read the gospels all the way through outside of a list of cherry picked verses.

For not hurting anyone, how's your interpretation of Jesus whipping the Money changers out of the temple?
 
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F0uad

F0uad

Well-Known Member
CMike said:
He lied.

There is only one G-D, and it's certaintly not jesus.
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He did not lie, people just forgot hes words in time. The Gospels are written much later after Jesus(pbuh) so we should not make false allocations, according to the same Gospels Jesus(pbuh) was a god-fearing man who followed all the laws that were written in the Torah he even condemned people who did not follow the law.
 
F0uad

F0uad

Well-Known Member
Porque77 said:
I understood the question perfectly. But I say you are who does not understand that Jesus Christ gives the true Law. So I wrote this the Gospel says.

The Gospel says:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)

Jesus Christ says that this is the Law. Then?...
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According to the same book Jesus(pbuh) said:

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

Or in luke:

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (16:17)

Even in John:

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
F0uad said:
He did not lie, people just forgot hes words in time. The Gospels are written much later after Jesus(pbuh) so we should not make false allocations, according to the same Gospels Jesus(pbuh) was a god-fearing man who followed all the laws that were written in the Torah he even condemned people who did not follow the law.
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There is literally no way you could possibly know that.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
metis said:
There is literally no way you could possibly know that.
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There is no way you can possibly say he wasn't, and in all consideration, if he was a highly enough esteemed Jewish teacher as the Historical-Jesus consensus agrees on, they probably wouldn't have followed him if he broke Torah, rather than breaking Pharisee conventions.
 
Porque77

Porque77

The Gospel is God's Law
Shermana said:
I don't see Jesus saying anything that forbids the exaction of physical punishment.
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What do you mean? You have not read the Gospel. The whole Gospel clearly prohibits harm to people.

The Gospel teaches that Old Testament law commanded to hurt and kill people for many reasons, and Jesus Christ, with his teachings, abolished those laws of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5:38-44, John 8:3 -11 and elsewhere in the Gospel.

For not hurting anyone, how's your interpretation of Jesus whipping the Money changers out of the temple?
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The scripture says that Jesus made ​​a whip and drove the merchants from the temple, but not says Jesus gave them lashes.
 
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