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Did Paul and Jesus say you could Crossdress?

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Clothing styles vary considerably by time and place. Still, I believe the Bible gives clear direction about cross-dressing. Men and women by nature groom and dress differently. The Bible mentions this at 1Corinthians 11:14,15; "Does not nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him; but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? " Deuteronomy 22:5 states clearly God's view of cross-dressing, a view that both Jesus and his true followers share: “No garb of an able-bodied man should be put upon a woman, neither should an able-bodied man wear the mantle of a woman; for anybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah your God." It is unthinkable that Jesus, who always did what was pleasing to God, would somehow accept what his Father said is detestable.(John 8:29) So I believe that even though Christians are not under the Law of Moses, the principles found in that Law still rightly guide their thinking and conduct.
 

Awoon

Well-Known Member
Clothing styles vary considerably by time and place. Still, I believe the Bible gives clear direction about cross-dressing. Men and women by nature groom and dress differently. The Bible mentions this at 1Corinthians 11:14,15; "Does not nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him; but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? " Deuteronomy 22:5 states clearly God's view of cross-dressing, a view that both Jesus and his true followers share: “No garb of an able-bodied man should be put upon a woman, neither should an able-bodied man wear the mantle of a woman; for anybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah your God." It is unthinkable that Jesus, who always did what was pleasing to God, would somehow accept what his Father said is detestable.(John 8:29) So I believe that even though Christians are not under the Law of Moses, the principles found in that Law still rightly guide their thinking and conduct.

Nature doesn't care what any human wears, how long or short their hair is or who's writing words in here. Only cults and religions care.
 

Shermana

Heretic
I guess the principle of "And he rested on the 7th day" means everyone else should do the same too.

So one more time, for confirmation, you are saying that it's perfectly fine for Christians to do like (in your view of the events) as Cain did with his sister?

So we have no objection to the idea that Christians are allowed to do as Cain did with his Sisters (in your interpretation of the story) according to the Antinomians.

Well there's enough ammunition for awhile. Heck, that could be the golden bullet I've been looking for.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Many times it is stated by those who claim to be Christians that the Law was done away with by Paul and Jesus (regardless of the fact that the Jerusalem Church was apparently still very much pro-Law even by Acts 21), or that the only commandments that are binding are those repeated in the canonized version of the NT manuscripts.

The rules against sexual immorality stated by Paul do NOT mention cross dressing. It may mention "Effeminacy" as something to avoid, but there are plenty of Butch Trannies, so they might not be covered by that. And women who convincingly look like men would definitely not either.

So where does this put crossdressing for the Antinomian Christian? Are Christians now allowed to go all out Tranny style? If not, please provide your scriptural justification and do not just limit it to some appeal to "moral law", please provide the direct basis of your belief on why Christians are not allowed to cross dress. Otherwise, feel free to add that you believe the NT justifies and has no condemnation towards drag.

Note: This thread is not meant to turn into the umpteenth debate on whether the Law still applies for Christians in general, of which we have several threads for that specific discussion, this is about a SPECIFIC issue of that theological basis which says the Law is completely undone or only applicable to laws that are specifically mentioned in the NT.
All the picture I see of Jesus He's wearing a dress.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Short Answer:
Deuteronomy 22:5 Does not mean (as is commonly preached) that a man cannot wear the same style as women. It means that men and women mustn't trade clothes. In other words Ben the Hebrew isn't allowed to borrow Mary's garb or vice - versa. The fact that Hebrews today have a different style for men & women is merely an extra precaution that this does not happen. I presume.

Since Jesus did not add anything to Deuteronomy 22:5, then it doesn't matter if women wear pants or whatever. The point is not to deceive (modesty) and to hate iniquity (the flesh).

Extended answer:
According to Matthew it is our responsibility to make sure strangers have clothes. Matthew 25:36

Matthew 17:15 says that false prophets use 'Sheeps clothing' to fool people, but they are actually wolves. Jude refers to them as 'Shepherds who feed only themselves' (Jude 1:12) The thing that is wrong about their clothing is that it is a disguise to make them appear spiritual and authoritative.

Leviticus 15:17 suggests that clothing with semen upon it must be washed. Many other passages require frequent washing of clothing for both sexes. Jude refers to this in Jude 1:23 as 'hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh'.
 
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rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Short Answer:
Deuteronomy 22:5 Does not mean (as is commonly preached) that a man cannot wear the same style as women. It means that men and women mustn't trade clothes. In other words Ben the Hebrew isn't allowed to borrow Mary's garb or vice - versa. The fact that Hebrews today have a different style for men & women is merely an extra precaution that this does not happen. I presume.

Since Jesus did not add anything to Deuteronomy 22:5, then it doesn't matter if women wear pants or whatever. The point is not to deceive (modesty) and to hate iniquity (the flesh).

Extended answer:
According to Matthew it is our responsibility to make sure strangers have clothes. Matthew 25:36

Matthew 17:15 says that false prophets use 'Sheeps clothing' to fool people, but they are actually wolves. Jude refers to them as 'Shepherds who feed only themselves' (Jude 1:12) The thing that is wrong about their clothing is that it is a disguise to make them appear spiritual and authoritative.

Leviticus 15:17 suggests that clothing with semen upon it must be washed. Many other passages require frequent washing of clothing for both sexes. Jude refers to this in Jude 1:23 as 'hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh'.

Well, why not let the Bible speak for itself:"A woman must not put on the clothing of a man, nor should a man wear the clothing of a woman. For anyone doing so is detestable to Jehovah your God." I think Jehovah made himself clear about this, just as he did when condemning homosexual conduct. (Leviticus 18:22)
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Well, why not let the Bible speak for itself:"A woman must not put on the clothing of a man, nor should a man wear the clothing of a woman. For anyone doing so is detestable to Jehovah your God." I think Jehovah made himself clear about this, just as he did when condemning homosexual conduct. (Leviticus 18:22)

Male on Male Homosexual conduct, said nothing about the ladies ;)
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Male on Male Homosexual conduct, said nothing about the ladies ;)

"That is why God gave them over to uncontrolled sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error." (Romans 1:26,27)
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Rus, it should be noted that Paul is commenting upon the Israelites when they were captured and dragged off to Babylon and Assyria where they were forced to break their laws and interbreed with Hellenists and Assyrians. God 'Gave them over' to those countries.

Paul continues by saying "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things." (Rom 2:1) He is speaking of the suppression of truth through judging others. The Israelites he says were given over to those countries because "Claiming to be wise they become fools." That is what he is trying to get across, that we shouldn't judge each other. It puts us above God and is idolatry, and idolatry which will only cause us to be given over by God to all kinds of humiliating things.

This fits very tidily with saying that the scripture doesn't say what style you can wear, which is an outward sign. Paul also is saying (as he always does) that God's truth is above yours or mine, so we can't judge each other. Judging people by their clothing is also inappropriate.
 
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FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
"That is why God gave them over to uncontrolled sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error." (Romans 1:26,27)


Lol but wait, I thought the OT laws were done away with. I looked at Leviticus, seems like Paul is just adding to Gods word...despite God saying "Dudes no way"
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Rus, it should be noted that Paul is commenting upon the Israelites when they were captured and dragged off to Babylon and Assyria where they were forced to break their laws and interbreed with Hellenists and Assyrians. God 'Gave them over' to those countries.

Paul continues by saying "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things." (Rom 2:1) He is speaking of the suppression of truth through judging others. The Israelites he says were given over to those countries because "Claiming to be wise they become fools." That is what he is trying to get across, that we shouldn't judge each other. It puts us above God and is idolatry, and idolatry which will only cause us to be given over by God to all kinds of humiliating things.

This fits very tidily with saying that the scripture doesn't say what style you can wear, which is an outward sign. Paul also is saying (as he always does) that God's truth is above yours or mine, so we can't judge each other. Judging people by their clothing is also inappropriate.

I don't believe that is what the context allows for. Paul, under inspiration, was speaking of "God's wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth." (Romans 1:18)
These wicked men "exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen. That is why God gave them over to uncontrolled sexual passion".
(Romans 1:25,26) in any case, God's view of homosexual practices is clearly stated.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Paul was definitely preaching against judging others, so to say he's concerned about cross-dressing is to completely miss his point. In this same book not two chapters away Paul says "Let God be true and every man a liar" the idea being that otherwise we call God a liar.
Rusra said:
I don't believe that is what the context allows for. Paul, under inspiration, was speaking of "God's wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth." (Romans 1:18)
Ok, but what is the nature of that wickedness? "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him...Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts" The law was taken away from them, because they became proud. They didn't honor God, instead becoming concerned about human opinions, just as Christians today don't when they judge each other. Christians are heavily divided over judgements against each other, whether women should wear pants for instance, how to handle divorced people, whether to purchase buildings, if television should be allowed and so on. Paul speaks against this kind of judging by appearances extensively in all of his letters. He says "Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters." (Rom 14:1). That is his major emphasis throughout this letter. A person's praise should come from God, not from other people. (Romans 2:29). The Israelites were given over to wickedness at one point according to Paul, because they weren't honoring God. Then how will Christians expect better if they waste time judging each other?
 
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