Dangit, why did my thread have to be closed, Oh well, I have gathered all the contradictions I am going to work on for now. Please do not post any more until I am through(and I will inform you all of that time)
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We are eagerly waiting for your apologetic response to the contradictions that were posted to you. Remember that it only take one to prove you wrong.Mister Emu said:Dangit, why did my thread have to be closed, Oh well, I have gathered all the contradictions I am going to work on for now. Please do not post any more until I am through(and I will inform you all of that time)
linwood said:I`ll check out the possible mistranslation but it makes no sense to me that Judas would have killed himself AFTER Christ ascended.
Why not?
What was the purpose?
Was there one?
He had seen the living Christ and apparently Christ wasn`t any too angry with him or he wouldn`t have been with the apostles
His act had brought about the salvation of all mans sins.
Not something most would kill themselves for.
Judas truly felt great remorse for his betrayal yet you tell me he was given a second chance and decided to kill himself instead of repaying Jesus for his mercy?
I'm not sure what you mean by "given a second chance".
Also if Judas was present with the disciples when Christ arose I find it difficult that no one ever asked him about his betrayal.
I don't think the Scriptures would contain every single dialog between every character.
I`d think even if Christ accepted him he`d still have a few choice words for him.
Like one on one words?
That was some serious torture and a horrible death he went through..god or not.
I don't believe Jesus Christ is God.
If not Christ then I`m sure peter would have said something about it.
Peter denied him[Christ] close to 6 times. Again, I highly doubt every conversation would be recorded.
They couldn`t have been happy with him before Christs resurrection.
Happy for his betrayal, probably not.
I`m not buying it.
Oh.
I`ll check for the mistranslation though.
true blood said:The word translated "hanged himself" in the KJV is apanchomai from the Greek word apancho. Only used once in the New Testament. In classical literature it means "to strangle" or "to choke" and is used figuratively to mean to choke with anger or grief.
You should be more careful where you copy & paste from.
Your info is incorrect.
From Thayers Lexicon...
apagchomai {ap-ang'-khom-ahee}-
1) to throttle, strangle, in order to put out of the way or kill
2) to hang one's self, to end one's life by hanging
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/5/1097644109-9656.html
Check the link above for content usage
Can you offer an authorative source for your "classical figurative" definition of the word?
Judas hung himself as the text states at face value.
And or a simple contradiction in the bible. Actaully, there are many scholars that feel the account in Matthew is hearsay. The author had no first hand knowledge of his death and made the mistake of writing what he had heard. You do realize that Matthew and Luke were written YEARS after the death of Jesus right?true blood said:Judas could not have killed himself before the crucifixion. Like I said before, a few days later, after the crucifixion and rez, 11 apostles were gathered with Thomas being the absent one according to John 20:24. Then 8 days later, all 12 apostles were together to see the risen Christ in John 20:26-29, confirmed furthermore by I Corinthians 15:5. Even Acts 1 and I Corinthians 15:7 indicate Judas was alive. Acts 1 states all 12 apostles WHOM JESUS HAD CHOSEN were with Jesus at the time of the ascension. Go figure why you ignore all of these accounts but focus on the only record in Matthew 27:5 which says Judas went and hanged himself. Ignorance. But I try not to be ignorant, therefore there is a deeper meaning behind the translation of "hanged".
Judas could not have killed himself before the crucifixion.
But I try not to be ignorant, therefore there is a deeper meaning behind the translation of "hanged".
Go figure why you ignore all of these accounts but focus on the only record in Matthew 27:5 which says Judas went and hanged himself. Ignorance.
Obviously you are misled by Hollywood and websites.
Go figure why you ignore all of these accounts but focus on the only record in Matthew 27:5 which says Judas went and hanged himself. Ignorance.
Acts 1 states all 12 apostles WHOM JESUS HAD CHOSEN were with Jesus at the time of the ascensin.
As for the figurative usage(of hanged), its verified in the classical writings of Aristophanes, Vespae. You are the only incorrect Mr. Biblical scholar.
true blood said:Judas could not have killed himself before the crucifixion. Like I said before, a few days later, after the crucifixion and rez, 11 apostles were gathered with Thomas being the absent one according to John 20:24. Then 8 days later, all 12 apostles were together to see the risen Christ in John 20:26-29, confirmed furthermore by I Corinthians 15:5. Even Acts 1 and I Corinthians 15:7 indicate Judas was alive. Acts 1 states all 12 apostles WHOM JESUS HAD CHOSEN were with Jesus at the time of the ascension. Go figure why you ignore all of these accounts but focus on the only record in Matthew 27:5 which says Judas went and hanged himself. Ignorance. But I try not to be ignorant, therefore there is a deeper meaning behind the translation of "hanged". Obviously you are misled by Hollywood and websites. When a person does unpreconceived research, he does not determine beforehand what he will find, research doesn't begin with answers, it looks for the answers. Your simple, cursory reading of a website does not denote study. Its dull how you focus on one verse which "appears" to have Judas kill himself yet ignore the multiple other verses which indicate Judas did not kill himself until after the ascension. If that isn't ignorance, I don't know what is. As for the figurative usage, its verified in the classical writings of Aristophanes, Vespae. You are the only incorrect Mr. Biblical scholar.
You have yet to show any evidence of Aristophanes usage of the word. It would be nice to compare the two usages side by side. A lot of words have multiple meanings and how they are used in a sentance along with the context make it obvious.true blood said:Think about it for a sec. No other Gospel mentions Judas' death. The only actual description of his death is in Acts. He committed suicide in a fashion common to his times, he impaled himself on a sharp instrument. Very similar to Saul's suicide, Israel's first king. Don't get me wrong, I do agree that "apanchomai" can be used literally. But I also believe it can be used figuratively as well. You suggest that it must only be used literally at all times, why? I mentioned that Aristophanes' writings used a figurative sense of the word. I mentioned that other Greek manuscripts use "apeuchomai"[to wish a thing away], "pnigalion"[a nightmare], "apopnigo"[choke with vexation and rage], each indicating that something terrible must of befallen Judas, like a spiritual force which began to consume him that ultimately led up to his suicide.