Tunisian girls return home pregnant after Syria 'Sexual Jihad’

Sahar said:

Huh?!! Those girls are assumed to travel thousands of kilometers away from their home (Tunisia) to a war zone where they are supposed to voluntarily give themselves to dozens or hundreds of men. But at the end of the day they are "fooled". As you can see it is a very convincing story!

As I pointed out before who first invented it was the Syrian regime.

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I don't care who invented what. Women were forced to do what they did. Doesn't matter if it came from where they were or where they went. For them to have gone voluntarily could mean that their husbands, fathers, ect made them go.

Monk Of Reason said:

I don't care who invented what. Women were forced to do what they did. Doesn't matter if it came from where they were or where they went. For them to have gone voluntarily could mean that their husbands, fathers, ect made them go.

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So basically you don't care if the story was true or not. And it doesn't care if it makes sense or not. What matters to you is that those supposed girls must be mindless sheep controlled by husbands and fathers in a misogynistic society according to your stereotyped view of reality?
Is this how you view the world? You just buy into anything said to you without questioning, without understanding?

Sahar said:

So basically you don't care if the story was true or not. And it doesn't care if it makes sense or not. What matters to you is that those supposed girls must be mindless sheep controlled by husbands and fathers in a misogynistic society according to your stereotyped view of reality?
Is this how you view the world? You just buy into anything said to you without questioning, without understanding?

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No. I don't care what country, religion ect those girls were from. I know that they did not want to go and be raped by who knows how many men for the sake of Jihad. Through patriarichal dominance and sexism they were trapped in a system in which they were not able to escape. I don' know if it was from the government, the society or the families. But it was wrong from wherever it originated.

And its not a stereotyped view of reality. It is reality. Being a woman in a large part of the world is a terrible terrible thing. Even in America and Europe they struggle to obtain equality.

Monk Of Reason said:

And its not a stereotyped view of reality. It is reality. Being a woman in a large part of the world is a terrible terrible thing. Even in America and Europe they struggle to obtain equality.

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I would argue being a woman, might be a beautiful thing, especially in Islamic ssocieties, where the men lower their gaze and respect women/sisters/mothers.

Monk of No Reason at all..Why do you think all women want equality with men? Islamic society is well structured..the women are happy doing what they do and so are the men..no need for the equality drama..in Islam the women are more "equal" then men in some cases and the men are more "equal" in others..that being said IMO women are a lot stronger than men..

I hate how some people like pushing their standards on the rest of the world..what happened to freedom, freedom to practice what we believe without nosy Athiests sticking their fingers in our Halal pie..

Monotheist 101 said:

I would argue being a woman, might be a beautiful thing, especially in Islamic ssocieties, where the men lower their gaze and respect women/sisters/mothers.

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If only they would do so... have you been to Paksitan or Saudi lately? :sarcastic

Monk of No Reason at all..Why do you think all women want equality with men? Islamic society is well structured..the women are happy doing what they do and so are the men..no need for the equality drama..in Islam the women are more "equal" then men in some cases and the men are more "equal" in others..that being said IMO women are a lot stronger than men..

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In theory, perhaps men and women are both happy doing what they do. Reality is much different though. I will happily agree that women are stronger in certain ways than men though.

I hate how some people like pushing their standards on the rest of the world..what happened to freedom, freedom to practice what we believe without nosy Athiests sticking their fingers in our Halal pie..

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I think this goes both ways. It's equally annoying to hear how a supposed Shariah based society would be any better... I think all sides should be allowed to practice what they believe so long as it's not cruel to its people or others.

Jihad marriage/temporary marriage... whatever title it's given... is abhorant.

Monk Of Reason said:

No. I don't care what country, religion ect those girls were from. I know that they did not want to go and be raped by who knows how many men for the sake of Jihad. Through patriarichal dominance and sexism they were trapped in a system in which they were not able to escape. I don' know if it was from the government, the society or the families. But it was wrong from wherever it originated.

And its not a stereotyped view of reality. It is reality. Being a woman in a large part of the world is a terrible terrible thing. Even in America and Europe they struggle to obtain equality.

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It's no wonder that many American people are brainwashed by the US mainstream media!
Here is a reasonable thing to do to make the world less terrible: don't believe anything you hear or read but first ask about the source of this news or that story, check its credibility, understand the context and possible bias of the source.

"Over the past few weeks, various media outlets have been awash with sensational stories of an alleged “sex jihad” taking place in parts of Syria controlled by the rebels. Hundreds of Muslim women, notably from Tunisia, are reportedly going to Syria to offer themselves to jihadist fighters as a sign of their devotion to thecause. While this certainly makes for an interesting story, it may all be a hoax."
The Observers.france24.Are the reports of a Syrian 'sex jihad' a hoax?

But this doesn't matter, those alleged women must be forced to be raped by their male relatives because they live in a patriarchal system from which they can't escape blablabla...

ssainhu said:

If only they would do so... have you been to Paksitan or Saudi lately? :sarcastic

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Not Saudi in a while but went to Pakistan and India last year. The Pakistani culture is very protective of women. I saw a man get beat up by randoms on the street because he whistled at a girl..:yes:, IMO Islamic society shelters its women, and the women seem to enjoy this elevated status.

In theory, perhaps men and women are both happy doing what they do. Reality is much different though. I will happily agree that women are stronger in certain ways than men though.

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I agree

I think this goes both ways. It's equally annoying to hear how a supposed Shariah based society would be any better... I think all sides should be allowed to practice what they believe so long as it's not cruel to its people or others.

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Im not saying impose sharia law everywhere, but let the people be free to choose for themselves, if they dont like it they can always rebel.

Jihad marriage/temporary marriage... whatever title it's given... is abhorant.

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I never supported it, I believe it is bogus propaganda.

Aquitaine said:

I love it how you're saying that, from Australia. :biglaugh:

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Yeh we love our pies here mate

Aquitaine said:

Indeed, Halal is quite popular in the UK too, which makes sense given the fairly recent rise in the Muslim population, primarily from immigration (I assume).

I just wonder though, about these "nosy Atheists" who you mentioned are trying to force their standards unto you - who are these people?

As an Australian, is this hostility coming from non-muslims, or Atheists in general?

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I wasn't talking about Australia, rather this forum, i think you read too much into my post. Non muslims and Athiests are both cool down under, its not that they are hostile towards muslims rather they are oblivious to what Islam is about, everyone naturally seems to pick the osama bin laden jihad monkey stereotype that is promoted in the western media.

Monotheist 101 said:

I would argue being a woman, might be a beautiful thing, especially in Islamic ssocieties, where the men lower their gaze and respect women/sisters/mothers.

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yes. Beautiful. No say in her political life. No say in what her rights may be. No say in her education. She has to wear cloth over her face or else she can be publicly beaten. She can't leave the house without a man. If she is to report an abuse against her she musth have several MALE witnesses to testify.

Yes being a woman in these parts of the world is a beautiful thing.

Monk of No Reason at all..Why do you think all women want equality with men? Islamic society is well structured..the women are happy doing what they do and so are the men..no need for the equality drama..in Islam the women are more "equal" then men in some cases and the men are more "equal" in others..that being said IMO women are a lot stronger than men.

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What a Misogynistic statement. Women have no need for equality? Thats ******** to the highest degree. I don't know of any women who are happy to be raped, to be sold, to be considered nothing more than property by certain people.

This isn't against the religion. There are a plethura of Muslim men and women who I respect and know on a personal level. I've even dated a Muslim woman once. We've had these conversations. She hates every bit of what you are talking about. She loves her Isalm and she doesn't consider it to be connected to these vile and heinous acts being done to women in these countries. Its not about drama its about power.

I hate how some people like pushing their standards on the rest of the world..what happened to freedom, freedom to practice what we believe without nosy Athiests sticking their fingers in our Halal pie..

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Its not an Atheist thing. Its a human rights thing. Many people in charge over others don't like that change. Many men fought feminist movements. Slave owners fought against the abolishment of slavery. And misogynistics fight against equality of women.

And yes what about freedom for your women?

Sahar said:

It's no wonder that many American people are brainwashed by the US mainstream media!
Here is a reasonable thing to do to make the world less terrible: don't believe anything you hear or read but first ask about the source of this news or that story, check its credibility, understand the context and possible bias of the source.

"Over the past few weeks, various media outlets have been awash with sensational stories of an alleged “sex jihad” taking place in parts of Syria controlled by the rebels. Hundreds of Muslim women, notably from Tunisia, are reportedly going to Syria to offer themselves to jihadist fighters as a sign of their devotion to thecause. While this certainly makes for an interesting story, it may all be a hoax."
The Observers.france24.Are the reports of a Syrian 'sex jihad' a hoax?

But this doesn't matter, those alleged women must be forced to be raped by their male relatives because they live in a patriarchal system from which they can't escape blablabla...

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I could say the same thing to you about being brainwashed by Islam and the Koran. But that would somehow be terribly offensive. But the reverse is fine for you to make judgements on me as an Atheist or an American.

And there is no denying that women in these patriarchal societies are worse off. By every standard that I use the term they are worse off. I also notice how we don't get any women from these Islamic nations on these forums. Though I unlike many others don't blame Islam specifically for this. I think that the nasty patriarch predates the religion. I don't blame Islam because I know there are plenty of feminst Muslims. I've met quite a few.

Monk Of Reason said:

I could say the same thing to you about being brainwashed by Islam and the Koran. But that would somehow be terribly offensive. But the reverse is fine for you to make judgements on me as an Atheist or an American.

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Oh I am touched!
You yourself already made a judgment but based on a potentially fake story and your ignorance. You didn't even try to question the validity of the story. I am not here to defend Islam. What I was mainly concerned of is the credibility of the OP. But hey it seems this doesn't concern you at all, I know that there are many people who aren't used to question the source of the news/stories/articles and buy into anything they read or hear and apparently you are one of them. Moreover, you don't seem to have some background about Tunisia or even about the nature of the Syrian conflict. But...your attitude was not surprising.

And there is no denying that women in these patriarchal societies are worse off. By every standard that I use the term they are worse off.

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Where are these patriarchal societies located on the map?

I also notice how we don't get any women from these Islamic nations on these forums. Though I unlike many others don't blame Islam specifically for this. I think that the nasty patriarch predates the religion. I don't blame Islam because I know there are plenty of feminst Muslims. I've met quite a few.

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Eh...I usually sneak to (my) laptop when my male relatives go to bed, please please don't tell them!!
Really?! :sarcastic

Sahar said:

Oh I am touched!
You yourself already made a judgment but based on a potentially fake story and your ignorance. You didn't even try to question the validity of the story. I am not here to defend Islam. What I was mainly concerned of is the credibility of the OP. But hey it seems this doesn't concern you at all, I know that there are many people who aren't used to question the source of the news/stories/articles and buy into anything they read or hear and apparently you are one of them. Moreover, you don't seem to have some background about Tunisia or even about the nature of the Syrian conflict. But...your attitude was not surprising.

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Your debating someone in your head. Quit projecting.

Monk Of Reason said:

yes. Beautiful. No say in her political life. No say in what her rights may be. No say in her education. She has to wear cloth over her face or else she can be publicly beaten. She can't leave the house without a man. If she is to report an abuse against her she musth have several MALE witnesses to testify.

Yes being a woman in these parts of the world is a beautiful thing.

What a Misogynistic statement. Women have no need for equality? Thats ******** to the highest degree. I don't know of any women who are happy to be raped, to be sold, to be considered nothing more than property by certain people.

This isn't against the religion. There are a plethura of Muslim men and women who I respect and know on a personal level. I've even dated a Muslim woman once. We've had these conversations. She hates every bit of what you are talking about. She loves her Isalm and she doesn't consider it to be connected to these vile and heinous acts being done to women in these countries. Its not about drama its about power.

Its not an Atheist thing. Its a human rights thing. Many people in charge over others don't like that change. Many men fought feminist movements. Slave owners fought against the abolishment of slavery. And misogynistics fight against equality of women.

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I never said they dont have a need for equality at all, just that men and women will never actually be equal or treated exactly the same because that is how we are built, are you telling me that an attractive woman isnt given special treatment over an obese ugly male at the workplace? The fact of the matter is beautiful women get special treatment wherever they are.

The point I was trying to make which you completely missed was that when you apply "your" standards to a society which you are not a part of or do not understand completely you will always be left wanting more. We are split up into so many distant nations and cultures for a reason, I think which is a great thing, would it be any good if we all became exactly the same? Like "you" want us to be? Again man, I would say let people choose for themselves, when they are ready they will adopt a more "civil" (whatever that means to you) way of life naturally.

I am not against feminism or anything, but I have come to the conclusion that we are not meant to be completely equal(and no Im not talking about voting or child marriages), women have the upper hand in alot of things and I respect that, why is it a problem acknowledging the same for the opposite side?

And yes what about freedom for your women?

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If freedom means, letting your buttcheeks hangout your shorts everytime we have a sunny day, then no, I dont want that sort of freedom, for my daughter especially.

Monotheist 101 said:

I never said they dont have a need for equality at all, just that men and women will never actually be equal or treated exactly the same because that is how we are built, are you telling me that an attractive woman isnt given special treatment over an obese ugly male at the workplace? The fact of the matter is a beautiful women get special treatment wherever they are.

The point I was trying to make which you completely missed was that when you apply "your" standards to a society which you are not a part of or do not understand completely you will always be left wanting more. We are split up into so many distant nations and cultures for a reason, I think which is a great thing, would it be any good if we all became exactly the same? Like "you" want us to be? Again man, I would say let people choose for themselves, when they are ready they will adopt a more "civil" (whatever that means to you) way of life naturally.

I am not against feminism or anything, but I have come to the conclusion that we are not meant to be completely equal(and no Im not talking about voting or child marriages), women have the upper hand in alot of things and I respect that, why is it a problem acknowledging the same for the opposite side?

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There are a lot of laws in these parts of the world that are abhorently sexist. I'm not talking about small little things. But things like having a woman's word mean as much as a man's in court. Or being able to walk outside without a man to acompany her. Or allowed to wear what she see's fit. Little things like that. Its impossible to have a "true equality" but it doesn't mean that things canot be better. There is a thick bold line between what your saying as far as slight upper hand in different situations and obvious patriarchy.

If freedom means, letting your buttcheeks hangout your shorts everytime we have a sunny day, then no, I dont want that sort of freedom, for my daughter especially.

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My question to you is why do you feel you have the authority to say what women wear? Even your daughter after she becomes of age?

Monk Of Reason said:

I could say the same thing to you about being brainwashed by Islam and the Koran.

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You know what wouldnt be offensive at all rather quite the opposite? If you said.. We were heart-washed by Islam and the Quran..

Monk Of Reason said:

There are a lot of laws in these parts of the world that are abhorently sexist. I'm not talking about small little things. But things like having a woman's word mean as much as a man's in court. Or being able to walk outside without a man to acompany her. Or allowed to wear what she see's fit. Little things like that. Its impossible to have a "true equality" but it doesn't mean that things canot be better. There is a thick bold line between what your saying as far as slight upper hand in different situations and obvious patriarchy.

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Dude why do you think I am supporting the "arab culture" you have mixed for with Islam? The Islam I practice goes well with the modern world EDIT: The laws mentioned in the Quran are there for a reason IMO and they are meant for an Islamic state which you are not part of, Personally I want equal rights for women and gays too in Australia..All Im saying is stop fingering a pie that aint yours..

My question to you is why do you feel you have the authority to say what women wear? Even your daughter after she becomes of age?

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No I dont feel I have the authority, but I would definitely feel that I did a terrible job as a parent (which according to my beliefs I will be judged for) if my daughter dresses like a skank or works as a hooker. I would feel that I have not fulfilled my responsibility to her.