What Is The Meaning Of These Verses?

A. Ben-Shema · Jul 24, 2007

Matt 10:35-37 "For I (Jesus) have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; a mans enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple."

Does anyone have a good explanation of these verses?

Peace & Love

may · Jul 24, 2007

A. Ben-Shema said:
Matt 10:35-37 "For I (Jesus) have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; a mans enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple."

Does anyone have a good explanation of these verses?

Peace & Love

when a person really becomes a follower of Jesus, it is surprising how even members of a persons family can be in opposition to that . and Jesus knew that would happen . so do we say ok then i will not be a follower of christ , or do we carry on being a follower of christ even though our family members are in opposition . if we stop being a follower of christ then we are not really a disiple of Jesus . Jesus does not want us to hate our family members but some family members could make it very difficult for us
(Matthew 19:29) And everyone that has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive many times more and will inherit everlasting life.....................

doppelganger · Jul 24, 2007

A. Ben-Shema said:
Matt 10:35-37 "For I (Jesus) have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; a mans enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Unconditional love, the Christ, transcends familial identity, and certainty of identity in all forms creates separation.

A. Ben-Shema said:
Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple."

One must give up certainty in identity - i.e. release attachment to the things and relationships by which one defines one's self in order to be One with Christ.

J. Krishnamurti explains it as follows:

It is important to understand, not intellectually but actually in your daily life, how you have built images about your wife, your husband, your neighbor, your child, your country, your leaders, your politicians, your gods - you have nothing but images.

The images create the space between you and what you observe and in that space there is conflict, so what we are going to find out now together is whether it is possible to be free of the space we create, not only outside ourselves but in ourselves, the space which divides people in all their relationships.

Now the very attention you give to a problem is the energy that solves that problem. When you give your complete attention - I mean with everything in you - there is no observer at all. There is only the state of attention which is total energy, and that total energy is the highest form of intelligence. Naturally that state of mind must be completely silent and that silence, that stillness, comes when there is total attention, not disciplined stillness. That total silence in which there is neither the observer nor the thing observed is the highest form of a religious mind. But what takes place in that state cannot be put into words because what is said in words is not the fact. To find out for yourself you have to go through it.

Wisdom_Seeker · Jul 24, 2007

A. Ben-Shema said:
Matt 10:35-37 "For I (Jesus) have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; a mans enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple."

Does anyone have a good explanation of these verses?

Peace & Love

Yeshua taught to know only yourself, and you will know the mysteries. The thing is, you need to start dismissing the things you were taught from early childhood, starting with your mother to do this.
We are born with certain virtues (intuition, intelligence, imagination), and then in the progress of your life, you start learning other peoples truths. And you will do so, only to re-discover that the only true things are the thing you learned from yourself, and what you learned from others, are just "borrowed truths".

Your family will teach you things to behave in society, to behave in your familys standards, they set rules of behavior for you, and they expect you to follow those rules. This is the key they are expecting things from you!, and if you do as they want, then you will never do as Yeshua taught in those verses.
You need to have a fresh start to receive the teachings of Yeshua as they really are.

And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins.
(Luke 5:37-38)

The new wine that Yeshua is talking about is the teachings of wisdom. We are old wineskins, molded by society (starting with our family) to behave in their standards. We need to get rid of all preconceived knowledge and ideologies, its all bullcrap, and receive the teachings as they really are, with an open heart.

angellous_evangellous · Jul 24, 2007

A. Ben-Shema said:
Matt 10:35-37 "For I (Jesus) have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters — yes, even his own life — he cannot be my disciple."

Does anyone have a good explanation of these verses?

Peace & Love

In my opinion, it speaks to the alienation of believers from their families in the ancient world. Most families didn't take it too kindly when a family member converted to a foreign religion, and especially one which was mutually exclusive of the religion of the family.

Background work on this is by Jerry Neyrey on his website: http://www.nd.edu/~jneyrey1/articles.html

Neyrey, Jerry. "Loss of Wealth, Loss of Family and Loss of Honor." In Modelling Early Christianity, ed. Philip Esler, 139-59. New York: Routledge, 1995

wizanda · Jul 24, 2007

A. Ben-Shema said:
Matt 10:35-37 "For I (Jesus) have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me (mine) is not worthy of me (mine); anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me (mine)."

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters — yes, even his own life — he cannot be my disciple."

Mat 6:24
(24) No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Mammon is Idolatry in the Bhagavad-Gita.....also Maya in terms of Yeshua's usage of it.

Mat 10:34
(34) Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Luk 2:35
(35) (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Mar 11:22
(22) And Jesus answering said unto Stone (peter), Have faith in God.....

A. Ben-Shema · Jul 24, 2007

angellous_evangellous said:
In my opinion, it speaks to the alienation of believers from their families in the ancient world. Most families didn't take it too kindly when a family member converted to a foreign religion, and especially one which was mutually exclusive of the religion of the family.

Why do you refer to the ancient world? Isn't it the same today?

I know that when I started following my Master, my family tried desperately to change my mind. The last words of my father to me on his deathbed were a plead to give up following my Master.

Peace & Love

Jayhawker Soule · Jul 24, 2007

may said:
when a person really becomes a follower of Jesus, it is surprising how even members of a persons family can be in opposition to that . and Jesus knew that would happen .

blah ... blah ... blah ... Gnostic gnowledge can be such a, well, 'creative' effort - gMat 10:35 an allusion to Micah 7:6.

angellous_evangellous · Jul 25, 2007

A. Ben-Shema said:
Isn't it the same today?

Perhaps in some parts of the world, but not the West. In a very individualistic captialist democracy a person who is estranged from their family can survive quite well, and perhaps this situation is preferable for success.

In the NT times, estrangement from the family means being cut off entirely from the political and economic system.

A. Ben-Shema · Jul 26, 2007

angellous_evangellous said:
Perhaps in some parts of the world, but not the West. In a very individualistic captialist democracy a person who is estranged from their family can survive quite well, and perhaps this situation is preferable for success.

In the NT times, estrangement from the family means being cut off entirely from the political and economic system.

But we are not talking about how well one can survive without family support, we are talking about how people can turn against us, or deter us, for following what they see as a strange or erroneous path. Look, for example, at all the anti-cult movements that exist in the west.

Peace & Love

Booko · Jul 26, 2007

A. Ben-Shema said:
But we are not talking about how well one can survive without family support, we are talking about how people can turn against us, or deter us, for following what they see as a strange or erroneous path. Look, for example, at all the anti-cult movements that exist in the west.

No, you were talking about how people can turn against family members.

The NT is talking about being left out of the social and economic system, as A_E explained, in addition to having family members ticked off at you.

Oh sure, it's bad enough to have your family turn their backs on you.

But it's much worse if you also find yourself an outcaste with no visible means of financial support.

A. Ben-Shema · Jul 26, 2007

Booko said:
No, you were talking about how people can turn against family members.

Quote A.B-S.
But we are not talking about how well one can survive without family support, we are talking about how people can turn against us, or deter us, for following what they see as a strange or erroneous path. Look, for example, at all the anti-cult movements that exist in the west.

Can you not read and understand what I quite clearly said here? Do you not understand that family and friends are PEOPLE?

The NT is talking about being left out of the social and economic system, as A_E explained, in addition to having family members ticked off at you.

Where does the NT talk about being 'left out' of the social and economic system, except for one's own personal choice of leaving that system to follow the Master.

Booko · Jul 26, 2007

A. Ben-Shema said:
Where does the NT talk about being 'left out' of the social and economic system, except for one's own personal choice of leaving that system to follow the Master.

Thank you for such an excellent example of the dangers of reading a text in a cultural and historical vacuum.

A. Ben-Shema · Jul 27, 2007

Booko said:
Thank you for such an excellent example of the dangers of reading a text in a cultural and historical vacuum.

Why don't you answer any of the points raised in my post?

Angelfire · Jul 28, 2007

A. Ben-Shema said:
Matt 10:35-37 "For I (Jesus) have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; a mans enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple."

Does anyone have a good explanation of these verses?

Peace & Love

I have read on a very good site that the word hate is a poor translation.

As to the meaning of the above verses-A mans enemies are those of his own
household means his own thoughts. The rest is about loving the creator more
than the created. We cannot become a disciple unless we love God above all else.

Peace

MusaaEl-Haadi · Sep 20, 2013

A. Ben-Shema said:
Matt 10:35-37 "For I (Jesus) have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; a mans enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple."

Does anyone have a good explanation of these verses?

Peace & Love

The Gospel According to Matthew 10 ; 34 - 39 , States , And I Quote ; Change Brings Conflict ( Luke 12 ; 51 - 53 ; 14 ; 26-27 ) .

The Gospel According to Luke 14 ; 25 - 33 , States , And I Quote ; Love Yashu'a more than yourself .

What Is The Meaning Of These Verses?

A. Ben-Shema

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may

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doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass

Wisdom_Seeker

Speaker of my Truth

angellous_evangellous

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wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts

A. Ben-Shema

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Jayhawker Soule

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angellous_evangellous

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A. Ben-Shema

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Booko

Deviled Hen

A. Ben-Shema

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Booko

Deviled Hen

A. Ben-Shema

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Angelfire

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MusaaEl-Haadi

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