Was satan really a part of Jesus?

I know it may sound radical but this is where I'm coming from.

I believe we all have a light side, and a dark side. And one of the things on a spiritual path is to learn your darkness, and shed some light into it, so you can do what you must to clean house.

So Jesus, before he starts his ministry, goes into the desert and fasts. So he did go into a different state of consciousness, and one could become delirious when fasting. Then satan tempted him with various things, like asked him to turn a stone to bread, throw himself off the cliff and have the angels save him, and also then he offered him the world basically, if he would fall down and worship him.

To myself we're all presented with a choice who to become. If we become a light or dark being. And Jesus certainly made his choice to be light, and reject the temptation. So what evidence could there be, that there really is a satan? What if this was just Jesus facing his weaknesses in the desert, and then showing us how to do the same?

Food for thought.

Yep. "Satan" the ongoing voice (whisperer) we converse with in our minds.

Awoon said:

Yep. "Satan" the ongoing voice (whisperer) we converse with in our minds.

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Yes it does make more sense than a separate being who is walking around trying to get them to go to hell. I think fallen angels and so forth are metaphorical. However there is a real aspect that human beings have darkness within. A part of ourselves which we are unaware of. Jesus, by fasting, appears to have been making the unconscious conscious.

satori8 said:

Yes it does make more sense than a separate being who is walking around trying to get them to go to hell. I think fallen angels and so forth are metaphorical. However there is a real aspect that human beings have darkness within. A part of ourselves which we are unaware of. Jesus, by fasting, appears to have been making the unconscious conscious.

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subconscious is a better word.

Awoon said:

subconscious is a better word.

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Well they're both the same thing but used by different groups.

Psychologists refer to it as unconscious, such as Jung and Freud, whereas some spiritual groups refer to it as the subconscious.

Subconscious - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

satori8 said:

Well they're both the same thing but used by different groups.

Psychologists refer to it as unconscious, such as Jung and Freud, whereas some spiritual groups refer to it as the subconscious.

Subconscious - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Yeah like the "uncola." 7 up

I don't believe that fallen angels are metaphorical and I don't believe Hell is physical. Some Gnostics and apocryphal writings describe the heavens as being populated with angels who revolted and fell onto the Earth. If you ever been on a strict cleansing diet or fast you may have experienced some hallucinations both auditory and visual as a symptom of going so long without food. So maybe the "devil" never challenged Jesus at all but the story was told to encourage strength and defeat temptation. Some describe Hell as a state of being in the dark or a distance from the light of God. As we know some of these stories are parables and not actual actions on part of any entity.

I don't believe Yeshua understood or even was totally aware of his divinity until we pick up the story of his existence after the desert episode. I think that this is his 'come to Jesus' moment that illuminated his true self and purpose. Scorsese may have much closer to truth the we'd like to admit in The Last Temptation of Christ.

satori8 said:

I know it may sound radical but this is where I'm coming from.

I believe we all have a light side, and a dark side. And one of the things on a spiritual path is to learn your darkness, and shed some light into it, so you can do what you must to clean house.

So Jesus, before he starts his ministry, goes into the desert and fasts. So he did go into a different state of consciousness, and one could become delirious when fasting. Then satan tempted him with various things, like asked him to turn a stone to bread, throw himself off the cliff and have the angels save him, and also then he offered him the world basically, if he would fall down and worship him.

To myself we're all presented with a choice who to become. If we become a light or dark being. And Jesus certainly made his choice to be light, and reject the temptation. So what evidence could there be, that there really is a satan? What if this was just Jesus facing his weaknesses in the desert, and then showing us how to do the same?

Food for thought.

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my response to these types of questions is always why does it matter?

nazz said:

my response to these types of questions is always why does it matter?

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Because satan as a symbolism for the flesh is a more scientifically acceptable proposition than a horned fairy who runs around possessing people, and because it doesn't give the individual someone else to blaim (ie "satan made me do it"), the individual must accept responsibility for their actions.

satori8 said:

I know it may sound radical but this is where I'm coming from.

I believe we all have a light side, and a dark side. And one of the things on a spiritual path is to learn your darkness, and shed some light into it, so you can do what you must to clean house.

So Jesus, before he starts his ministry, goes into the desert and fasts. So he did go into a different state of consciousness, and one could become delirious when fasting. Then satan tempted him with various things, like asked him to turn a stone to bread, throw himself off the cliff and have the angels save him, and also then he offered him the world basically, if he would fall down and worship him.

To myself we're all presented with a choice who to become. If we become a light or dark being. And Jesus certainly made his choice to be light, and reject the temptation. So what evidence could there be, that there really is a satan? What if this was just Jesus facing his weaknesses in the desert, and then showing us how to do the same?

Food for thought.

Click to expand...

Satan is a mythical character created inn legends long ago to induce fear into those that are simple minded. He has evolved through hype just as many legends.

[youtube]j-gbOnWj6Mw[/youtube]
The Evolution of Satan in the Bible - YouTube

danieldemol said:

Because satan as a symbolism for the flesh is a more scientifically acceptable proposition than a horned fairy who runs around possessing people, and because it doesn't give the individual someone else to blaim (ie "satan made me do it"), the individual must accept responsibility for their actions.

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I'm not sure what science has to do with it.

Whether literal or simply a metaphor for the power of evil and temptation the effect is still the same.

BSM1 said:

I don't believe Yeshua understood or even was totally aware of his divinity until we pick up the story of his existence after the desert episode. I think that this is his 'come to Jesus' moment that illuminated his true self and purpose. Scorsese may have much closer to truth the we'd like to admit in The Last Temptation of Christ.

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In Luke 2:49 Jesus identifies God as His Father, saying, "wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?". It is possible this is a concious acknowledgement of divinity.
In Luke 4:2 is where Jesus is tempted by the devil.

(The author of) Luke also asserts that Jesus was filled with the Holy Ghost on His return from Jordan, and this same Spirit led Him into the desert in Luke 4:1

I don't see the connection between this and Scorcese's fictional work.

satori8 said:

I know it may sound radical but this is where I'm coming from.

I believe we all have a light side, and a dark side. And one of the things on a spiritual path is to learn your darkness, and shed some light into it, so you can do what you must to clean house.

So Jesus, before he starts his ministry, goes into the desert and fasts. So he did go into a different state of consciousness, and one could become delirious when fasting. Then satan tempted him with various things, like asked him to turn a stone to bread, throw himself off the cliff and have the angels save him, and also then he offered him the world basically, if he would fall down and worship him.

To myself we're all presented with a choice who to become. If we become a light or dark being. And Jesus certainly made his choice to be light, and reject the temptation. So what evidence could there be, that there really is a satan? What if this was just Jesus facing his weaknesses in the desert, and then showing us how to do the same?

Food for thought.

Click to expand...

If you look at the traditional basis for the term Satan, it means advesary and/or opposer. The term ah-satan was used originally by the Essenes, although there might be an earlier use, and literally meant someone who was not an Essene. So if look at it from the point of the first uses before the Christian personification then Jesus would have actually been ah-satan to the leaders of Judea, and mainstream Judaism in general. He would have been the advesary to the Pharisees and Saduccees who held power and oppressed the common people for their own good.

Everyone is satan to someone else by the traditional use of the term. Christian's and LHP folk are satanists to each other, because they are advesaries and or opposers of each other.

I don't think Jesus chose to be light or darkness, but rather realized the balance of being both.

yoda89 said:

Satan is a mythical character created inn legends long ago to induce fear into those that are simple minded. He has evolved through hype just as many legends.

[youtube]j-gbOnWj6Mw[/youtube]
The Evolution of Satan in the Bible - YouTube

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Satan is not just a mythical character, he is someone who is not like you or your group. Anyone that is you or your groups advesary is satan. The Christian church just personified the term and used it soley as a being who opposed Christianity. A clever ploy in my opinion.

BSM1 said:

I don't believe Yeshua understood or even was totally aware of his divinity until we pick up the story of his existence after the desert episode. I think that this is his 'come to Jesus' moment that illuminated his true self and purpose. Scorsese may have much closer to truth the we'd like to admit in The Last Temptation of Christ.

Click to expand...

Jesus never referred to himself as being divine, or atleast he that he was the only divine human, and that all humans are inherently "divine".

satori8 said:

I know it may sound radical but this is where I'm coming from.

I believe we all have a light side, and a dark side. And one of the things on a spiritual path is to learn your darkness, and shed some light into it, so you can do what you must to clean house.

So Jesus, before he starts his ministry, goes into the desert and fasts. So he did go into a different state of consciousness, and one could become delirious when fasting. Then satan tempted him with various things, like asked him to turn a stone to bread, throw himself off the cliff and have the angels save him, and also then he offered him the world basically, if he would fall down and worship him.

To myself we're all presented with a choice who to become. If we become a light or dark being. And Jesus certainly made his choice to be light, and reject the temptation. So what evidence could there be, that there really is a satan? What if this was just Jesus facing his weaknesses in the desert, and then showing us how to do the same?

Food for thought.

Click to expand...

Evidence of Satan(Dark side) is.. One doesn't want to know God.
Evidence of God (Light side) is.. One want to know God.

satori8 said:

I know it may sound radical but this is where I'm coming from.

I believe we all have a light side, and a dark side. And one of the things on a spiritual path is to learn your darkness, and shed some light into it, so you can do what you must to clean house.

So Jesus, before he starts his ministry, goes into the desert and fasts. So he did go into a different state of consciousness, and one could become delirious when fasting. Then satan tempted him with various things, like asked him to turn a stone to bread, throw himself off the cliff and have the angels save him, and also then he offered him the world basically, if he would fall down and worship him.

To myself we're all presented with a choice who to become. If we become a light or dark being. And Jesus certainly made his choice to be light, and reject the temptation. So what evidence could there be, that there really is a satan? What if this was just Jesus facing his weaknesses in the desert, and then showing us how to do the same?

Food for thought.

Click to expand...

its an interesting thought, however it doesnt answer the question as to how it could happen that Jesus could actually confine Satan to the abyss so that he cant' mislead anyone from among mankind:

"“And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.”
” Revelation 20:1-3.

if satan is just the bad in each of us, then who's being shut up in the abyss?

Pegg said:

its an interesting thought, however it doesnt answer the question as to how it could happen that Jesus could actually confine Satan to the abyss so that he cant' mislead anyone from among mankind:

"“And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.”
” Revelation 20:1-3.

if satan is just the bad in each of us, then who's being shut up in the abyss?

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Luke 17:34-36
`I say to you, In that night, there shall be two men on one couch, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left; two women shall be grinding at the same place together, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left; two men shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left.'

Whether Satan is an actual person, or just a personification, matters little. What matters is the education of our children. What is profitable to us and them is of God. But, when we create a duality, it can only be for the purpose of exposing God's glory. Job did so efficiently.

The highest truth, above the minds of men, is that there is a universe full of God's creations, and He alone determines their beings, their laws, and their fates. Anything lesser than this is according to the barriers of perception that God Himself places on creation. He is all-knowing- past, present, and future.

Luke 17:20-21
And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, `The reign of God doth not come with observation; nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'

This he said to the Pharisees; that God is God, in and above each man.

Revelations has been a horrible stumbling block for generations on top of generations. Too much of it is dualistic and overly symbolic, creating both external and internal suicide. Your children will read this book and go to war with themselves over its meaning. And those preaching from it are, and will be themselves false prophets and antichrists. It continues to promote elitism (as do the Jews), and false expectations of a further coming Kingdom, and these have hindered the Messianic age since the beginning.

Luke 17:1-4
And he said unto the disciples, `It is impossible for the stumbling blocks not to come, but wo [to him] through whom they come; it is more profitable to him if a weighty millstone is put round about his neck, and he hath been cast into the sea, than that he may cause one of these little ones to stumble. `Take heed to yourselves, and, if thy brother may sin in regard to thee, rebuke him, and if he may reform, forgive him, and if seven times in the day he may sin against thee, and seven times in the day may turn back to thee, saying, I reform; thou shalt forgive him.'

All flesh will be saved and evolve. Not by word, or action, or even belief alone, but by the power of God. This great power is within creation already. And the full eradication of evil is delayed only for the sake of the process. God's name had always been 'God with us', even before there was an 'us' to realize it.

satori8 said:

I know it may sound radical but this is where I'm coming from.

I believe we all have a light side, and a dark side. And one of the things on a spiritual path is to learn your darkness, and shed some light into it, so you can do what you must to clean house.

So Jesus, before he starts his ministry, goes into the desert and fasts. So he did go into a different state of consciousness, and one could become delirious when fasting. Then satan tempted him with various things, like asked him to turn a stone to bread, throw himself off the cliff and have the angels save him, and also then he offered him the world basically, if he would fall down and worship him.

To myself we're all presented with a choice who to become. If we become a light or dark being. And Jesus certainly made his choice to be light, and reject the temptation. So what evidence could there be, that there really is a satan? What if this was just Jesus facing his weaknesses in the desert, and then showing us how to do the same?

Food for thought.

Click to expand...

Sure, I agree with this.

I believe Satan is a part of everything, because Satan is literally defined as the "Opposition". In day to day life we witness this, we become this, we literally enroll in this idea. (from the media to the food in your refrigerator)

Now whether this has anything to do with light or dark I would contend, opposition isn't about these aspects, light and dark, its about what can grow where and how beneficial it is to the self and the persons surrounding the self.

If Jesus could not have been tempted by Satan, then Satan never would have tried to tempted Him in the first place. I think that Satan may be a symbolic gesture of our physical selves- our flesh. This verse:
Mark 14:38 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
might support that. Jesus was flesh, so He probably had the same temptations as we do.

chinu said:

Evidence of Satan(Dark side) is.. One doesn't want to know God.
Evidence of God (Light side) is.. One want to know God.

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No sir, I totally disagree with this. God is both the light and the darkness, and the same goes for Satan.

Opposing the dark would be light, and opposing the light would be dark, both would be Satan because they are both "opposing".

If God is all, how can he not be both the light and the dark?