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"Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'"

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
One doesnt need to dig deep on this.

Since there is no natural method for the image to have appeared from a dead body with such deatail, those who believe it is real first. Are searching for these supernatural methods when it has already been show how they made this forgery, and in fact! they recreated a identical image using ancient methods known to exist 1300 years ago.

Nothing at all screams original, and everything screams out fraud loudly.
Actually, the recreated image that was created was not identical. Upon further review, there were distinct differences that were found. This is why the view has mostly been discredited now.

There is no supernatural method being made for this. A perfectly natural method is being made. Radiation is not supernatural, and I don't understand why you keep saying that it is.

As for the idea it is a forgery (you are using the term incorrectly) or a fraud simply can't be verified. First, one would need evidence that someone created this cloth. There is no such evidence. Second, one would need evidence that they created this cloth with the intention that it be passed off as the burial cloth of Jesus. Again, there is no such evidence.

You calling it a fraud, and the like, and refusing to actually "dig deep" shows your bias, as well as your refusal to do actual research. What you have presented thus far is nothing more than apologetics for your faith.
 

philbo

High Priest of Cynicism
Not really. Often, scientist can not duplicate an effect (such as the evolution of humans) or it would be too unethical to try. Science is also about observation. And often, when a theory is created, testing should be done; however, duplicating is not necessary.
In the context of suggesting a method by which the shroud effect has been created, to assert a method without showing that said method can reproduce the effect would be unscientific. That there are other times when testing isn't possible does not change this.

Reading a couple of articles by Fanti, it definitely is what he is talking about. He has even tested the theory, and found that such a cause a perfect replica; however, only small areas have been able to be reproduced. This is why he says that the blast of radiation would have to be considerable.
If the corona discharge is being generated by ionizing radiation, it would be a humungous amount at a very high energy; however, high electrical potential differences are a different beastie altogether (and seem to be what Fanti was using to generate his test data, looking at the kit). Which is why I was wondering whether the "radiation" quote was a mistranslation.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
In the context of suggesting a method by which the shroud effect has been created, to assert a method without showing that said method can reproduce the effect would be unscientific. That there are other times when testing isn't possible does not change this.
If the method is known to produce such an effect, does one need to duplicate the actual effect? In this case, a duplication of the effect could be quite dangerous (and in fact, that is what Fanti, as well as those researchers he was working with stated). It would be unethical to put others at such a risk, when the method itself is known to be able to produce such an effect.

If the corona discharge is being generated by ionizing radiation, it would be a humungous amount at a very high energy; however, high electrical potential differences are a different beastie altogether (and seem to be what Fanti was using to generate his test data, looking at the kit). Which is why I was wondering whether the "radiation" quote was a mistranslation.
I don't think the radiation quote was a mistranslation. It is the same thing that is present in his actual journal articles. Since the articles are peer-reviewed, I would be confident that it was radiation that is being talked about.

Fanti has said that reproducing such an effect would be quite dangerous exactly because of the very high energy.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
One doesnt need to dig deep on this.

Since there is no natural method for the image to have appeared from a dead body with such deatail, those who believe it is real first. Are searching for these supernatural methods when it has already been show how they made this forgery, and in fact! they recreated a identical image using ancient methods known to exist 1300 years ago.

Nothing at all screams original, and everything screams out fraud loudly.

The only way for Christians to prove the detail present on the shroud as being remotely possible is to recreate similar detail comparatively using a cadaver in the timespan that Christ was.

It's one of the primary reasons I support the forgery point of view by way an " artifact" was purposely created in order to bolster Christianity. I personally doubt such detail can be reproduced from a corpse strongly suggesting an artificial work was created in the likeness of Christ as he was envisioned during that time.

And like aforementioned earlier on, how is the image even determined to be Christ at all?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
The only way for Christians to prove the detail present on the shroud as being remotely possible is to recreate similar detail comparatively using a cadaver in the timespan that Christ was.

It's one of the primary reasons I support the forgery point of view by way an " artifact" was purposely created in order to bolster Christianity. I personally doubt such detail can be reproduced from a corpse strongly suggesting an artificial work was created in the likeness of Christ as he was envisioned during that time.

And like aforementioned earlier on, how is the image even determined to be Christ at all?

It was christ like because that is how the people of the time viewed the character.


what is hillarious is that the same people that question the dating also say no natural causes could make the image.

No body 3 days or 3 weeks, makes a mark on cloth like what we see a artist did, to that cloth. That came out with 40 other forgeries.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
The only way for Christians to prove the detail present on the shroud as being remotely possible is to recreate similar detail comparatively using a cadaver in the timespan that Christ was.
Does it have to be Jesus though? Even if one could show that it is from the 1st century, that wouldn't prove it was of Jesus.

I think the problem in this thread is that people think that if it is from the first century, it automatically becomes the burial cloth of Jesus. That isn't so. It simply makes the artifact all that much older.
It's one of the primary reasons I support the forgery point of view by way an " artifact" was purposely created in order to bolster Christianity. I personally doubt such detail can be reproduced from a corpse strongly suggesting an artificial work was created in the likeness of Christ as he was envisioned during that time.
How would it bolster Christianity during that time though? Christianity was the ruling religion. It didn't need to be bolstered. So to make an artifact in order to bolster a religion that was already dominate doesn't seem to make sense.

Also, the problem with the idea that it is a forgery is that one would have to show that it was intended to be seen as Jesus. That simply isn't known, as it is not know exactly when the artifact was created, or by who (or of whom). It isn't even known where it is from, even though there is good evidence it comes from the Middle East. Without that information, how can it be said to be a forgery, and not instead a mistaken artifact?

More so, the work of Fanti, as well as others, have suggested that such an image can be produced using a corpse. Fanti has tested his theory, and the results are promising. They have also been checked by others.


And like aforementioned earlier on, how is the image even determined to be Christ at all?[/QUOTE]
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It was christ like because that is how the people of the time viewed the character.


what is hillarious is that the same people that question the dating also say no natural causes could make the image.

No body 3 days or 3 weeks, makes a mark on cloth like what we see a artist did, to that cloth. That came out with 40 other forgeries.

One reason why italian chemist Luigi Garlaschelli's experiment held a fair amount of weight with me. I suspect at least one of the reasons for doing the re-creation of the shroud.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
It was christ like because that is how the people of the time viewed the character.
Are you sure? There were many different ways in which Christ was portrayed at that time period.
what is hillarious is that the same people that question the dating also say no natural causes could make the image.
That simply is false. Fanti for instance, believes that the image was caused by natural causes, and in fact has used his method to actually reproduce similar imaging. He has even published his work in peer-reviewed journals.

Raymond Rogers also accepted a natural cause for the imaging.

To try to discredit all that disagree with you in such a manner is ridiculous, and only shows that you haven't done the actual work of researching the topic. Blind faith and apologetics once again.
No body 3 days or 3 weeks, makes a mark on cloth like what we see a artist did, to that cloth. That came out with 40 other forgeries.
First, you haven't shown that an artists did this. The previous attempts simply have failed of producing such an artifact. They can make something similar, but when observed more in depth, it fails (I find it funny that your main source here is a questionable news agency). As for the supposed other 40 forgeries, show them. I hardly believe you can.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
One reason why italian chemist Luigi Garlaschelli's experiment held a fair amount of weight with me. I suspect at least one of the reasons for doing the re-creation of the shroud.
Garlashelli's experiment did look promising. However, there is serious questions, and more doubt that it simply lacks. One of the main problems is with the blood. According to shroud experts, the blood was on the cloth first, and then the image appeared. With Garlashelli, the exact opposite was the case. The method in which he used would have made it virtually impossible for the blood to have already been on the cloth.

The quality of the image is also quite different. Garlashelli's image is rough, and quite grotesque when taken from a 3-D perspective, while the shroud itself is quite good with that.

Two final problems with the work (which could be fixed easily) is that the study was funded from a biased source (an atheist/agnostic group, who have a problem (to put it mildly) with Christianity), and has not been peer-reviewed. If peer-reviewed, the questionable funding source would be overcome though.
 

bippy123

Member
Considering that the earliest images of Jesus depicted him as beardless, shorthaired, and youthful, I doubt that this "face" is his.

And the earliest images of Christ were correct? You have to consider the times that these images were created in, and the fact that there is very little biblical or cultural evidence that Christ or his 12apostles had short hair or were clean shaven.

Notice that the icons of the 6th century show Jesus with a pony tail and a beard.
Notice also that these starting popping up at the same time that the image of edessa was found again hidden in the walls of an edessan castle and if it wasn't for the great flood of edessa the mandylion would never have been found. How do we know that the shroud was here back then.

First the excellent congruent matches between the shroud and the different icons and images made back then like the Christ pantocrator for example, which if shown shown in a court of law would easily be considered a match with the face image on the shroud of turin. In a court of law it takes 35 to 55 congruent point matches to qualify as a positive is match. The Christ pantocrator has at between 140 and 185 congruent point matches with the shroud of turin . In a court of law there is no doubt that the 2 would be considered a positive match. The Christ pantocrator is dated between 528 and 550 ad.

You also have the light raking research of john Jackson who found the fold marks on the shroud that match it up with the mandylion which is also from that time, and this was when the icons depicting how Jesus would have more accurately have had his hair appeared.

Remember the only biblical reference in the New Testament for shorter hair was when paul was preaching to the Greeks about the men not having long hair, but then again if you didnt understand the time and culture paul was preaching to you would have understood that greek men had ther hair extraordinarily long and also decorated it with ornaments and flowers like women. The hair of the man on the shroud is more in line with Jews of the first century.

If you don't believe me just look at the ultra orthodox Jewish rabbis of today who have kept this same tradition of hair for thousands of years. The shroud image also has been show to have sidelocks which is in line with how orthodox Jewish rabbis have traditionally had it.

Rebecca Jackson the wife of physicist john Jackson was an Orthodox Jew before later converting to Christianity and she was an expert in this area and also the Jewish burial customs of the first century.
 

bippy123

Member
Garlashelli's experiment did look promising. However, there is serious questions, and more doubt that it simply lacks. One of the main problems is with the blood. According to shroud experts, the blood was on the cloth first, and then the image appeared. With Garlashelli, the exact opposite was the case. The method in which he used would have made it virtually impossible for the blood to have already been on the cloth.

The quality of the image is also quite different. Garlashelli's image is rough, and quite grotesque when taken from a 3-D perspective, while the shroud itself is quite good with that.

Two final problems with the work (which could be fixed easily) is that the study was funded from a biased source (an atheist/agnostic group, who have a problem (to put it mildly) with Christianity), and has not been peer-reviewed. If peer-reviewed, the questionable funding source would be overcome though.

Thank you for pointing this falling blood , Luigi tried to fix the blood first problem but he saw no way to overcome it or the 3d spatial info encoded into the shroud .
If anyone on earth could overcome it atheists organizations would have funded it a long time ago, but not a peep out of them since this failed attempt. This is a big thorn on the side for many atheist groups.
There were many other problems with the Luigi image as I posted them on the other shroud thread here.

Even with 21st century technology no one has successfully came even close to producing the image with all its unique characteristics.the only one who came closest was Doctor August Accetta who produced many of its unique characteristics using gamma rays but it still couldn't come close to the clarity of the shroud. Remember also that photographic negative information wasnt available back then.

Accetta was an agnostic before he studied the shroud . He converted to Christianity after his research.
 

bippy123

Member
Actually, the recreated image that was created was not identical. Upon further review, there were distinct differences that were found. This is why the view has mostly been discredited now.

There is no supernatural method being made for this. A perfectly natural method is being made. Radiation is not supernatural, and I don't understand why you keep saying that it is.

As for the idea it is a forgery (you are using the term incorrectly) or a fraud simply can't be verified. First, one would need evidence that someone created this cloth. There is no such evidence. Second, one would need evidence that they created this cloth with the intention that it be passed off as the burial cloth of Jesus. Again, there is no such evidence.

You calling it a fraud, and the like, and refusing to actually "dig deep" shows your bias, as well as your refusal to do actual research. What you have presented thus far is nothing more than apologetics for your faith.

Not only this falling blood, but we have to honestly ask ourselves why would a medieval forger need to go to all this length to try to fool anyone back then when it could have been done in a much easier fashion.

Why would the forger also sprinkle microscopic clumped pollen grains from flowers that grew in Jerusalem which bloomed during the spring time when no one in medieval times even had the tech to search for these pollens . It's ridiculous to even think he would . Why would a forger from that time put microscopic travertine aragonite found only in the tombs of Jerusalem when no one in medieval times could have told the difference anyways much less know what kind of limestone the tombs of Jerusalem were composed of anyways.

I have stopped conversing with outhouse a long time ago not only is he emotionally biased against the shroud to the point that he just flatly deny this stuff, but he was already caught in a lie against Los alamos head chemist and senior fellow ray Rogers , but he also called Rogers a known biased quack, even though Rogers is an agnostic himself and was made a fellow of Los alamos labs because of his excellent scientific work there, yet follow the website of joe nickell who doesn't have a 2 year scientific degree of any type.

It's useless to have an honest and rational conversation with someone like this.
 

bippy123

Member
That simply is false. There have been studies showing that large blasts of radiations can in fact produce such images. So it is rational, and in fact supported, that radiation could in fact produce such images. There are also a number of other theories, which have been tested.

The "artistic" explanation does not actually produce the same sort of image though. Yes, there was a recent study done in Italy that said it could reproduce such an image. And on the surface, they were correct. However, when further studied, at a fiber level, they did not cut it.

Also, to call it a fraud is not rational at all. Do you have any evidence that this object was produced in order to deceive anyone? Do you have any evidence that it was even purposely created? No you don't. Thus your conclusion is not rational. For someone dismissing others for supposedly being biased, you are the one who clearly holds a bias here.

Yes falling, your talking about the recent ENEA tests done which used a high powered excimer laser to create a 2 centimeter long part of the image , but found out that it was impractical to produce the whole image cause it would take a laser the size of a 5 story building with the power of 33,000 billion watts of energy to produce the full image.

Scientists Suggest Turin Shroud Authentic | Physics | Sci-News.com

Also concerning Luigi's image when asked to give the information on the depth of the image he would not give that information out. As shown here.

http://t.nbcnews.com/science/was-ho...talian-researchers-resurrect-claim-6C10402695

"In 1978, several sticky tapes were used to sample the Shroud in different points of the body image. When the image fibers were pulled out of the adhesive, their colored coatings had been stripped off the fiber and remained in the adhesive. These coatings were independently analyzed by Profs. Alan Adler and Ray Rogers, and all of them were too thin to measure accurately with a standard optical microscope. This means the thickness of all coatings was smaller than the visible light wavelength, say thinner than 0.6 micrometer.

"Recently, these results have been confirmed by a direct measurement of another fiber, showing the thickness of the colored coating around the fiber is about 0.2 micrometer. As a consequence, there is quite a good probability most of the image fibers throughout the body image have a coloration depth smaller than 0.6 micrometers.

"Prof. Garlaschelli claimed he obtained 'a superficial coloration' without mentioning 'how much' superficial. Is it 100 micrometers thick? 10 micrometers? One micrometer? Nobody knows. I asked chemists [who are] colleagues at ENEA, and they told me it is impossible to obtain a coloration depth smaller than 10 to 20 micrometers with the chemicals used by Prof. Garlaschelli. This fact alone means the results of Garlaschelli are not comparable with the Shroud image. Mr. Nickell may be interested to know Prof. Garlaschelli refused to reply the letter sent to the editor of JIST (the journal that published his results) where several points of his work were criticized, including the lack of a measurement of the coloration depth.

Then Joe Nickel backtracks when cornered:


"Coming to the question of Mr. Nickell: We never claimed to have reproduced the whole Shroud image. We were interested to gain a deeper insight into the physical and chemical processes that generated such an unusual image. And we were successful to find photochemistry processes that are able to generate a Shroud-like coloration of linen fibers.

"Concerning Occam's razor, I am a scientist, and when I wish to understand a phenomenon, seeking for a scientific explanation, I use microscopes, spectrometers, image detectors and other laboratory tools. I see Mr. Nickell prefers using philosophical instruments like the medieval Occam's razor, a theory proposed in the 14th century. Each of us is free to choose the most familiar tool to find answers."

Luigi and nickell knew that they didnt produce the shroud image. If you want to know the connection between the 2 they are both part of the ciscop skeptical society organization.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
So far, the shroud origins and results are still inconclusive.
Outside of the scientific data presented, it's only speculation and opinion as it currently stands now notwithstanding experimentation.

However there are still standing evidences to the contrary, indicating the shroud as being something other than authentic and from a said time period. There are around 70 challenges to the authenticity of the shroud and is published detailing the challenges via peer reviewed paper by Richard B. Sorensen.

Conversely some supporting evidences casting a light mainly on the dating of the shroud. The papers (Also peer reviewed and published) submitted by the late Raymond N.Rogers proving the material submitted in 1988 for radiocarbon dating was anomalous being the first scientific paper to challenge the results.

Personally I hold no opinion on the shroud. Im not impressed, yet I do find it interesting as being a rather unique artifact that seems to draw a notable mix of religious opinion and hard science.
 

bippy123

Member
So far, the shroud origins and results are still inconclusive.
Outside of the scientific data presented, it's only speculation and opinion as it currently stands now notwithstanding experimentation.

However there are still standing evidences to the contrary, indicating the shroud as being something other than authentic and from a said time period. There are around 70 challenges to the authenticity of the shroud and is published detailing the challenges via peer reviewed paper by Richard B. Sorensen.

Conversely some supporting evidences casting a light mainly on the dating of the shroud. The papers (Also peer reviewed and published) submitted by the late Raymond N.Rogers proving the material submitted in 1988 for radiocarbon dating was anomalous being the first scientific paper to challenge the results.

Personally I hold no opinion on the shroud. Im not impressed, yet I do find it interesting as being a rather unique artifact that seems to draw a notable mix of religious opinion and hard science.

Sorensen was a known skeptic of the shroud since he started studying it.
The fact that he claims that there is no evidence of it existing before the 14th century tells me that he is biased aganst it. There are excuses for the atheists here not knowing the full research details of the shroud but there is no excuse for sorenson who is supposed to know it well.

There is plenty of evidence of it existing before the 14 century as I pointed out first with the Hungarian pray codex which clearly shows an illustration of the shroud complete with the 3 way herringbone weave pattern and 4 poker holes.

The perfect match between the shroud and sudarium and the sudarium's history which is undisputed going back to the 6th century.

The light raking tests by Jackson which shows the match between the shroud and mandylion of the 6th century.

Sorenson claims that because paintings if Jesus's crucifixion show him being crucified through his palms that the shroud couldn't be authentic because it shows him being crucified through his wrist (which is the anatomically correct position?).

What sorenson brings to the table is no different then what posters here like outhouse have brought .

Sorenson was one of the first guys I read on shroud.com as far as looking for contrary evidences against the shroud , when I was first curious about it and I was a skeptic about its authenticity. Sorenson didn't I press me then, and from what I've seen from him lately he doesn't I press me now either.

Nowhereman, you are correct that the shroud is a mixture of hard science and speculation, but both areas show very compelling evidence towards authenticity, and I believe I have laid out a pretty good case for authenticity.

The reason why pseudo skeptics don't want to get passed the authenticity mark is because then they will have to deal with the u I que characteristics that are on that shroud image, and that is the thing that makes them uncomfortable .

I respect your opinion because at least you were honest about it.
It's all anyone could ask here :)
 
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Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
bippy123 said:
The image also fits in perfectly with Christ being in the tomb for only a few days because the image on the shroud of turin was in a state of rigor mortis as stated by Former Los Angeles coroner Robert Bucklin, and rigor mortis occurs quickly and last for up to 48 hours. This fits perfectly with the data of the man on the shroud.

It also fits perfectly with a number of other people who were in rigor mortis, and not just in the first century A.D.

bippy123 said:
And in all of recorded history no one has been recorded as being crucified as Jesus and the man on the shroud are buried.

No, how Jesus was "alleged" to have been crucified, and buried.

It is important to note that there are only a few existing original fragments of first century A.D. New Testament manuscripts, and only a few second century A.D. manuscripts, far too few to reasonably confirm what happened in the early part of the first century A.D.
 

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
Consider the following from the article in the opening post:

"He said the carbon-14 dating tests carried out in 1988 were 'false' because of laboratory contamination."

But even if the samples that were tested were tainted, more tests could be conducted on samples that were not tainted. Why doesn't the Roman Catholic Church have more tests conducted?

Tests done on tainted samples would not necessarily be false, only inconclusive.
 

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
Consider the following from an Internet blog:

Brane Space: The Turin Shroud: Real or Fake? Answer: Likely a Fake

copernicus said:
No examples of complex herringbone weave are known from the time of Jesus when, in any case, burial cloths tended to be of plain weave. In addition, Jewish burial practice utilized—and the Gospel of John specifically describes for Jesus—multiple burial wrappings with a separate cloth over the face, e.g. John 20:6, King James version:

"Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself...."

Aberration in the wrap dimensions: For a shroud that was supposedly wrapped around the body of Christ, the lack of wraparound distortions across the torso, thighs, and legs is striking - the figure does not satisfy the geometric conditions of contact formation.

Legacy of fake shrouds in the Middle Ages: The practice of faking 'holy relics' was widespread during the Middle Ages. It would be incomprehensible if multiple fake Shroud attempts were also not made.

Disparity in ages from fragments: The current researchers insist their samples are from the correct period, and the 1988 researchers somehow mistakenly selected samples not part of the original shroud but repairs following fire damage in 1532. This claim holds no water- since the original workers were always well aware of what parts of the cloth were repaired and which were older!

Erratic or conflicting history: At the very least any real relic ought to have a trackable history! However, little reliable information is known of the shroud before the 15th century, beyond it being present in France in the 14th century. In 1453 Margaret de Charny deeded it to the House of Savoy, and in 1578 the then-Duke transferred it to Turin. The description of the Turin cloth at this point differs from that of the original cloth first presented in the 14th century

Blood stains would render it more icon than relic: There are claims of "bloodstains" on the cloth, but Hebrew law dictated cleansing of the corpse before wrapping and bodies don't bleed after death. Chemist Walter McCrone identified the substance as a "combination of red ochre and vermilion tempera paint." However only fibrils lifted from the shroud on sticky tape were tested for blood

Image proportions are wrong: As for the image on the Shroud, some basic elements: the image is muscular and 1.70 to 1.88 meters, or about 5'7" to 6'2", tall, with wound points as though they could have been caused by the process of crucifixion, but there is no generally accepted theory to explain how the image was impressed onto the cloth. However, it is accepted that the image is not anatomically correct — the head is 5% too large for its body, the nose is disproportionate, and the arms are too long. In many ways then, it bears similarity or at least image analogy to the fake Oswald photos (holding a rifle) reproduced in LIFE magazine, which were later shown to be fake since while Oswald's head was the same scale in each photo, the bodies were almost always larger. And by about 5-10%.

Another little known aspect is the height of the Shroud Man (from the image) appears way too large for a Jew living at the time 100 B.C. E. - 100 C.E. At that period, the tallest Jewish males were roughly 5'4" and perhaps 5'5" at most. To therefore have a person as much as 6'2" would be absurd. The 5'7" is more in the spectrum of probable heights but still out by at least two Gaussian standard deviations.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
So far, the shroud origins and results are still inconclusive.
Outside of the scientific data presented, it's only speculation and opinion as it currently stands now notwithstanding experimentation.

However there are still standing evidences to the contrary, indicating the shroud as being something other than authentic and from a said time period. There are around 70 challenges to the authenticity of the shroud and is published detailing the challenges via peer reviewed paper by Richard B. Sorensen.

Conversely some supporting evidences casting a light mainly on the dating of the shroud. The papers (Also peer reviewed and published) submitted by the late Raymond N.Rogers proving the material submitted in 1988 for radiocarbon dating was anomalous being the first scientific paper to challenge the results.

Personally I hold no opinion on the shroud. Im not impressed, yet I do find it interesting as being a rather unique artifact that seems to draw a notable mix of religious opinion and hard science.
I couldn't agree more.


Consider the following from the article in the opening post:

"He said the carbon-14 dating tests carried out in 1988 were 'false' because of laboratory contamination."

But even if the samples that were tested were tainted, more tests could be conducted on samples that were not tainted. Why doesn't the Roman Catholic Church have more tests conducted?

Tests done on tainted samples would not necessarily be false, only inconclusive.
The major problem is that the Shroud is considered a holy relic. They don't want to destroy portions of the shroud in order to test it. Plus, it would upset many if they did do such. Not to mention that even if more samples were taken, and they proved to date to the first century, there would just be more claims of dismissal, and wanting to retest. It is a cycle many don't want to get into.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
No examples of complex herringbone weave are known from the time of Jesus when, in any case, burial cloths tended to be of plain weave. In addition, Jewish burial practice utilized—and the Gospel of John specifically describes for Jesus—multiple burial wrappings with a separate cloth over the face, e.g. John 20:6, King James version:
Matthew 27:59-60 states otherwise. It states: 59Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and placed it in his own new tomb

Matthew is considered to be the most Jewish of the Gospels. That being said, it is much more likely that a Jew would know the Jewish burial practices at that time. At most though, it shows the author is taking a biased look at the accounts. After all, they took the Gospel that is usually deemed to be the least historical.

Second, there have been other similar burials cloths found. In fact, there have been shrouds similar found in Jerusalem, dating from the first century. So it does follow that it would be likely.
Aberration in the wrap dimensions: For a shroud that was supposedly wrapped around the body of Christ, the lack of wraparound distortions across the torso, thighs, and legs is striking - the figure does not satisfy the geometric conditions of contact formation.
But we aren't talking about a normal sort of image either. After all, it is in a cloth, from an unknown source.
Legacy of fake shrouds in the Middle Ages: The practice of faking 'holy relics' was widespread during the Middle Ages. It would be incomprehensible if multiple fake Shroud attempts were also not made.
This is a lame argument. Just because something could possibly have happened doesn't mean that it did happen.
Disparity in ages from fragments: The current researchers insist their samples are from the correct period, and the 1988 researchers somehow mistakenly selected samples not part of the original shroud but repairs following fire damage in 1532. This claim holds no water- since the original workers were always well aware of what parts of the cloth were repaired and which were older!
Actually, there has been a number of works on the subject that suggest that researchers, until recently, knew that there was repair done on those sections.
Erratic or conflicting history: At the very least any real relic ought to have a trackable history! However, little reliable information is known of the shroud before the 15th century, beyond it being present in France in the 14th century. In 1453 Margaret de Charny deeded it to the House of Savoy, and in 1578 the then-Duke transferred it to Turin. The description of the Turin cloth at this point differs from that of the original cloth first presented in the 14th century
This simply shows a lack of knowledge. Most relics do not have a trackable history. After all, we are talking about long periods of time in which the majority of people were illiterate. We are also talking about a period of time in which many works were destroyed or lost.

A great example is the Dead Sea scrolls or the Nag Hammadi library. They were lost for centuries only to later turn up. It is not uncommon for artifacts to become lost, and only later found.
Blood stains would render it more icon than relic: There are claims of "bloodstains" on the cloth, but Hebrew law dictated cleansing of the corpse before wrapping and bodies don't bleed after death. Chemist Walter McCrone identified the substance as a "combination of red ochre and vermilion tempera paint." However only fibrils lifted from the shroud on sticky tape were tested for blood
Other researchers have verified that it was blood. Second, why would we assume that Hebrew law was followed? After all, he was killed by Romans. If the accounts are true, he was placed in the tomb right before the Sabbath, which would have made it a rushed job.
Image proportions are wrong: As for the image on the Shroud, some basic elements: the image is muscular and 1.70 to 1.88 meters, or about 5'7" to 6'2", tall, with wound points as though they could have been caused by the process of crucifixion, but there is no generally accepted theory to explain how the image was impressed onto the cloth. However, it is accepted that the image is not anatomically correct — the head is 5% too large for its body, the nose is disproportionate, and the arms are too long. In many ways then, it bears similarity or at least image analogy to the fake Oswald photos (holding a rifle) reproduced in LIFE magazine, which were later shown to be fake since while Oswald's head was the same scale in each photo, the bodies were almost always larger. And by about 5-10%.
Yes, because images can never be distorted. Considering we don't even know the process in which the image was captured, it is premature to rule out the possibility that some distortion was involved. Even in regular pictures, distortion happens.
Another little known aspect is the height of the Shroud Man (from the image) appears way too large for a Jew living at the time 100 B.C. E. - 100 C.E. At that period, the tallest Jewish males were roughly 5'4" and perhaps 5'5" at most. To therefore have a person as much as 6'2" would be absurd. The 5'7" is more in the spectrum of probable heights but still out by at least two Gaussian standard deviations.
How is the author aware of how tall the tallest Jews were? Using the average height of Jews does not actually work. More so, we are talking about an image that appears to be distorted anyway. Why should we assume that it was the exact height? Certainly such an image could have been enlarged.
 
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