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why can't we have a relationship with other men?

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FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
If I remember correctly 90% of every species that has ever existed is no extinct, and that seems to be the outcome all life is heading to, given our Sun is a star and Stars have a finite life albeit a long one. But given those numbers, I find it remarkable to think that the Universe is Fine-Tune for life or that Nature is built to suit us. It would appear that it's more focused on killing us then anything else.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
FranklinMichaelV.3 said:
If I remember correctly 90% of every species that has ever existed is no extinct, and that seems to be the outcome all life is heading to, given our Sun is a star and Stars have a finite life albeit a long one. But given those numbers, I find it remarkable to think that the Universe is Fine-Tune for life or that Nature is built to suit us. It would appear that it's more focused on killing us then anything else.
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Good point. It does seem that way to me.
It makes me realize how lucky we are to be here, if only for a brief moment in time. It could have easily gone some other way.

And don't quote me or anything but I think the number is closer to 99%.
 
payak

payak

Active Member
Being born with a flaw is not morally wrong, however at least disabled people recognise it, gays do not.
 
1robin

1robin

Christian/Baptist
ImmortalFlame said:
What, specifically, makes homosexuality a "flaw"?
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I did not make tat claim but read an interesting article by a homosexual that spoke on it. There are as many versions of how to justify Homosexuality as there are homosexuals who are in need f them. This one was a little more rigorous. It had something to do with a Chemical that is a byproduct made in a women's body when I think a boy was carried. The chemical for some reason destroyed another chemical that affected sexual orientation. In some women that had one boy after another the chemical would become too plentiful and screw up the next child at some point. The evidence was the number of homosexuals with brothers versus none. It was a large difference. So even the homosexual author stated that in that case it is a flaw and could even be prevented one day and they concluded additionally that it should be. I do not give credence nor denial to any of that but if that were true it would be a flaw if your view point allowed flaws to exist. Something contrary to set orders, operations, and designs would be a flaw. Does not prove it wrong just a flaw.
 
1robin

1robin

Christian/Baptist
FranklinMichaelV.3 said:
Yeah but you know...God hates them and so does Nature, so they aren't like every person...:thud:
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What God is this? Mine hates that action but loves the person who did it. If not he would have wiped us out in Genesis instead of dying for us. In fact we have at least one gay church in my town and I live in a very conservative part of the Bible belt. No protests against it, no ostracizing of them, no preaching against it. Of course they are a little more honorable that the common, despicable, rebellious, grotesque idiots seen in many of the northern gay parades.

As a bonus I just read of a macho heterosexual rugby player that had a stroke and woke up gay.
 
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Leftimies

Leftimies

Dwelling in the Principle
Agnostic75 said:
How do you define the word "natural"? The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines it as follows:

1. based on an inherent sense of right and wrong <natural justice>
2. being in accordance with or determined by nature
3. having or constituting a classification based on features existing in nature

Homosexuality is not morally wrong.

Homosexuality is in accordance with nature regarding the fact that a minority of animals, and a minority of humans practice it.

If you are implying that homosexuals generally have more health problems than heterosexuals do, that is true, and all major medical organizations know that it is true. The main issue is what homosexuals should do about their homosexuality. What do you recommend that homosexuals do about their homosexuality?

People who develop a homosexual sexual identity, and practice same-sex behavior do what feels natural to them, just as heterosexuals do what feels natural to them.
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Perhaps it is irrelevant what is so-called natural. Perhaps we, as intelligent species, can arrange our lives according to our own set of rules. It appears that I haven't been able to think for myself and once again find myself stuck in ignorant mindset.

Really...the curse of fundamental upbringing. Even when you try your hardest to be liberal buddhist, the past worldview comes back to haunt me ;_;
 
ImmortalFlame

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
1robin said:
I did not make tat claim but read an interesting article by a homosexual that spoke on it. There are as many versions of how to justify Homosexuality as there are homosexuals who are in need f them. This one was a little more rigorous. It had something to do with a Chemical that is a byproduct made in a women's body when I think a boy was carried. The chemical for some reason destroyed another chemical that affected sexual orientation. In some women that had one boy after another the chemical would become too plentiful and screw up the next child at some point. The evidence was the number of homosexuals with brothers versus none. It was a large difference. So even the homosexual author stated that in that case it is a flaw and could even be prevented one day and they concluded additionally that it should be. I do not give credence nor denial to any of that but if that were true it would be a flaw if your view point allowed flaws to exist. Something contrary to set orders, operations, and designs would be a flaw. Does not prove it wrong just a flaw.
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I'd like to see that article, but again this doesn't really suitably define a "flaw". A flaw is an "imperfection" or dysfunction that results in reduced functionality. I see no reason whatsoever to consider someone's sexual preference an imperfection, nor does it reduce any one of a person's functions. By this standard (given that what is basically said here is that homosexuality is genetic), my brother's ginger hair is a flaw since it is a result of mutation that is not consistent with either of my parents hair coloration. This notion of "flaws" is troubling on multiple levels, as who exactly gets to define what the "set order" or "design" is? If a black couple have a white child, is that a flaw? If my child prefers Pringles to Doritos, is that a flaw?

Of course, these objections are raised at the writer of the article; not at yourself.
 
V

voice crying

Member
Christians are not supposed to hate anyone but we must be intolerant of gross sin while being aware that no man can live w/o breaking God's eternal Law (why we need Jesus for forgiveness). However, often people confuse telling the truth (it offends many though) and hateful behavior. Gay behavior is still an abomination, even under the New testament.

There are a number of verses in the New Testament that both directly and indirectly reinforce what was said in verses in the Old testament on this issue. In other words, God's purpose for marriage [between 1 man & 1 woman, emphasis added] never changes but pride [i.e. pride parades] comes before the fall of mankind. Its a sign for the end-times.

One cannot remain gay, bi, etc and be Christian. It MOCKS God. If you sleep with or marry same sex it is in effect sleeping with or marrying yourself=lover of self=abomination (valid reason against it=right vs wrong love). Such relationships&marriages distort/merge/blurs God's male/female creation characteristics, attributes & purpose-Lv 18:22/Rm1:26-32/1Pt 4:3-4/Gal5:19-21/1Cr6:18-20.

Even 1 man&woman marriages cant b rightly put together w/o seeing God's purpose=the reason divorce rates have accelerated. God made Adam&Eve not Adam&Steve. It also hurts families&children(child sees 2 men kissing, etc.-children thinks its normal&they copy adults).

Only 1 God can occupy infinity=God of Israel=the only position no cause needed can exist&u can declare the end from the beginning=the Bible. Its only fully provable b/c Jesus is God's Son&He wasn't talking out 2nor1000s of sides of His mouth=no confusion.

In history only Jesus said He's the way, truth&life-no1 sees God w/o Him(Jn 14:6/5:39/Act4:12)=All new&other claims r false/godless or Jesus is 1 more false prophet 2 ignore.

Whether its b/c of so-called natural origin, hardwired or by choice gay behavior is against God's purpose. Only Jesus can rewire our brains to accept what is right. We can't change ourselves as we can't understand God's purpose w/o going through Jesus.
 
A

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
1robin said:
I did not make tat claim but read an interesting article by a homosexual that spoke on it. There are as many versions of how to justify Homosexuality as there are homosexuals who are in need f them.
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Yep. Just like Christians. As many versions of how to justify being a Christian as there are Christians who are in need of them.

So even the homosexual author stated that in that case it is a flaw and could even be prevented one day and they concluded additionally that it should be.
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Yeah, and I've read Christian writers who were deeply ashamed of their decision to embrace Jesus but said they just couldn't help themselves. They admitted that it was a flaw and hoped it could be prevented one day... as it clearly should be.

But what's your point?
 
F

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
1robin said:
What God is this? Mine hates that action but loves the person who did it. If not he would have wiped us out in Genesis instead of dying for us. In fact we have at least one gay church in my town and I live in a very conservative part of the Bible belt. No protests against it, no ostracizing of them, no preaching against it. Of course they are a little more honorable that the common, despicable, rebellious, grotesque idiots seen in many of the northern gay parades.

As a bonus I just read of a macho heterosexual rugby player that had a stroke and woke up gay.
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Lol your phobia is showing....
 
F

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
voice crying said:
Christians are not supposed to hate anyone but we must be intolerant of gross sin while being aware that no man can live w/o breaking God's eternal Law (why we need Jesus for forgiveness). However, often people confuse telling the truth (it offends many though) and hateful behavior. Gay behavior is still an abomination, even under the New testament.

There are a number of verses in the New Testament that both directly and indirectly reinforce what was said in verses in the Old testament on this issue. In other words, God's purpose for marriage [between 1 man & 1 woman, emphasis added] never changes but pride [i.e. pride parades] comes before the fall of mankind. Its a sign for the end-times.

One cannot remain gay, bi, etc and be Christian. It MOCKS God. If you sleep with or marry same sex it is in effect sleeping with or marrying yourself=lover of self=abomination (valid reason against it=right vs wrong love). Such relationships&marriages distort/merge/blurs God's male/female creation characteristics, attributes & purpose-Lv 18:22/Rm1:26-32/1Pt 4:3-4/Gal5:19-21/1Cr6:18-20.

Even 1 man&woman marriages cant b rightly put together w/o seeing God's purpose=the reason divorce rates have accelerated. God made Adam&Eve not Adam&Steve. It also hurts families&children(child sees 2 men kissing, etc.-children thinks its normal&they copy adults).

Only 1 God can occupy infinity=God of Israel=the only position no cause needed can exist&u can declare the end from the beginning=the Bible. Its only fully provable b/c Jesus is God's Son&He wasn't talking out 2nor1000s of sides of His mouth=no confusion.

In history only Jesus said He's the way, truth&life-no1 sees God w/o Him(Jn 14:6/5:39/Act4:12)=All new&other claims r false/godless or Jesus is 1 more false prophet 2 ignore.

Whether its b/c of so-called natural origin, hardwired or by choice gay behavior is against God's purpose. Only Jesus can rewire our brains to accept what is right. We can't change ourselves as we can't understand God's purpose w/o going through Jesus.
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How do you say God of Israel ten proceed to talk about Jesus who the Jews consider a false Messiah?
 
V

vtunie

Member
The action is obscene and despicable for a very simple reason that has nothing to do with any god or gods: it is something that the absolute and overwhelming majority feel gross revulsion about doing, regardless of whatever minority rights they are willing to grant to people they will shoo away the very second mutual homosexual activity is proposed.
 
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payak

payak

Active Member
I myself feel we are being forced in society today to say we are pro homosexuality.

We are not entitled to an opinion, myself I find it disgusting and abnormal however it would not be a problem if the media did not thrust it into your face every chance they get.
 
ImmortalFlame

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
payak said:
I myself feel we are being forced in society today to say we are pro homosexuality.

We are not entitled to an opinion, myself I find it disgusting and abnormal however it would not be a problem if the media did not thrust it into your face every chance they get.
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Are you aware that less than a century ago people thought the exact same thing about interracial relationships?

As for the media "thrusting it into your face every chance they get", I think that's a ridiculous thing to say. Do you have any idea how often heterosexuality is portrayed in popular media compared with homosexuality? It's not difficult to avoid it unless you're looking for it. Frankly, this kind of backwards thinking has no place in modern society.
 
A

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
payak said:
I myself feel we are being forced in society today to say we are pro homosexuality.
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In predominantly Muslim countries, and in most African predominantly Christian countries, homosexuals are widely persecuted, and are often imprisoned, or put to death.

No one is forcing you to accept any behavior.

Acceptance of homosexuality, and acceptance of equal legal rights for homosexuals, are two different things. Even people who oppose homosexuality should not oppose equal legal rights for homosexuals.

payak said:
We are not entitled to an opinion, myself I find it disgusting and abnormal however it would not be a problem if the media did not thrust it into your face every chance they get.
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When the U.S. was founded, women, black people, and native American Indians were not allowed to vote. Eventually, the media supported those groups of people, and it was good that the media did that. No one should be denied equal legal rights because of race, religion, gender, or sexual preference.

Research has shown that geography, family, gender, and age are important factors that influence what people believe. The century that a person is born in is also important. Under certain circumstances, you probably would not oppose homosexuality. If all Muslims who live in Iran had been raised in liberal homes in Western countries, surely far fewer of them would have ended up opposing homosexuality.

All bonobo monkeys are bisexual. Do you find that to be disgusting and abnormal?

What do you suggest that homosexuals do about their homosexuality?

Are you aware that sexual identity is not a choice?
 
A

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
vtunie said:
The action is obscene and despicable for a very simple reason that has nothing to do with any god or gods: it is something that the absolute and overwhelming majority feel gross revulsion about doing, regardless of whatever minority rights they are willing to grant to people they will shoo away the very second mutual homosexual activity is proposed.
Click to expand...

It depends upon the country, and often upon which parts of a country. A Wikipedia article at Same-sex marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia shows that same-sex marriage, and/or civil unions are legal in many countries, states, and provinces around the world, especially in countries that are more advanced, wealthy, and educated.

The majority of Americans support same-sex marriage, and allowing openly gay people to join the military. Over 20 countries allow openly gay people to join the military, including Britain, and Israel. Iceland has had an openly lesbian prime minister. So has Ontario, Canada.

During early U.S. history, most people found the idea that women, black people, and native American Indians deserved the right to vote to be absurd.

What do you suggest that homosexuals do about their homosexuality?

Since when has morality depended upon what the majority of people believe it is?
 
A

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
voice crying said:
There are a number of verses in the New Testament that both directly and indirectly reinforce what was said in verses in the Old testament on this issue.
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But even if Jesus rose from the dead, that does not necessarily mean that the original Bible said anything about same-sex behavior, and that God inspired those verses. The Bible contains at least some errors, interpolations, and forgeries.

In an article at The Formation of the New Testament Canon, Dr.
Richard Carrier shows that the formation of the New Testament canon was questionable.

Research has shown that geography, family, gender, and age are important factors that influence what people believe. The century that a person is born in is also important. Under certain circumstances, you probably would not oppose homosexuality. If all Christians who live in the U.S., and oppose homosexuality, had been raised in Muslim homes in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria, surely far fewer of them would have ended up becoming Christians.
 
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