How can Christians say Jesus (PBUH) is GOD?

Pegg said:

I would direct you to Jesus words to the Saducees who denied a physical resurrection:

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That is not the whole truth, the Saducees denied any resurrection, I accept that there is a spiritual resurrection;

Luke 20:27 Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection

Luke 20:37*But that the dead are raised up even Moses disclosed, in the account about the thornbush, when he calls Jehovah ‘the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob.’ 38*He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him.”

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This makes 100% sense if God is considering their spiritual state which is alive, and disregarding their physical state - which is dead.

You said above; Obviously people who are already physically dead can't change their beliefs if the JW assumption regarding people having no immortal soul were hypothetically assumed correct.

The whole context of the verse you quoted is regarding the already deceased brother of the lady Jesus is talking to. Furthermore it is followed by this verse 26;



Lazarus was already deceased, he had been dead 4 days in the tomb. So the context shows that Jesus really was speaking about a physical resurrection. It wasnt a spiritual resurrection,....he went onto raise Lazarus to life and the man came out of the tomb wrapped in bandages.

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I don't believe that Lazarus was physically dead. It had been a while since I read the story so I spoke to you from memory. Since at the time I assumed you to take Jesus words as they stood regarding the living never dying, it logically followed from my assumption combined with your assumption that Jesus refers to physical death would have stood because according to your hypothesis, Lazarus was already physically dead. Obviously since you interpret Jesus words on the living never dying as referring to a future state my assumption here was wrong, which voided the obvious conclusions regarding the implications.

To me the tomb, the grave cloths, the napkin, the stench, the death/sleep and resurrection are all symbolisms.

Take for example this statement regarding Lazarus;

John 11:21 "Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died"

Obviously Jesus presence would not prevent a physical death, old age, disease and many other things, even sudden afflictions without pre-warning such as heart attack could have caused Lazarus to die without warning, and Jesus presence is no gaurantee that such affliction would not have occurred. On the other hand Jesus presence could have prevented Lazarus' spiritual death because of the spiritual guidance that Jesus (spiritually) life giving presence and example imparted.

This interpretation of Lazarus having a spiritual affliction requiring guidance to spiritually revive him is in keeping with other contextual clues in the story, for example consider the following;

John 11:9 "Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep."

Consider the fact that in the presence of the light of the physical sun (ie during the day), man does not physically stumble. The opposite is the case in the absence of the physical sun's presence (ie during the night).

Now understand the meaning of the parable. In the presence of the spiritual light giver or spiritual sun (Jesus), man does not spiritually stumble. Man does spiritually stumble in the absence of the presence of the spiritual light giver (Jesus). Thus in the absence of Jesus it was possible for Lazarus to spiritually stumble/sleep/die. Consider that man sleeps in the absence of the sun (ie night). Then this is why it was possible for Lazarus to spiritually sleep/die in the absence of Jesus, but not in His presence as suggested by Martha.

Obviously Martha's statement is meaningless when interpreted as a statement referring to physical death in the presence of Jesus.

Obviously the parable I referred to in John 11:9-11(inclusive) is utterly non contextual if Lazarus is considered physically dead.

In the same way the presence of the physical sun awakens man from physical sleep, the presence of the spiritual sun awakens man from spiritual slumber, hence the obvious value of Jesus saying, "I go, that I may awake him out of sleep".

Well, in my opinion, Jesus made clear in the Bible that He is the Son of God and God. Here is the Bible verses I am talking about:

Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesare'a Philip'pi, he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that the Son of man is?" And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli'jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.
(Matthew 16:13-20 RSV-CE)

As you can see, Peter told him that He is the Christ, the Son of the living God and Jesus commended him for this and even called him blessed. In my opinion, that is an affirmation of his statement that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God.

Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen; but you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life." For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
(John 3:11-18 RSV-CE)

Here we see another part in the Bible where it says that God gave His only begotten Son. The part that says God gave His only begotten Son was written by Saint John the Apostle as a reflection. But remember, Saint John the Apostle was taught by Jesus Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
(John 1:1-5 RSV-CE)

This is a reference to Jesus Christ and in which He is called the Word. It clearly says that He is God.
The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. And this was why the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did this on the sabbath. But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working still, and I am working." This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God. Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all that he himself is doing; and greater works than these will he show him, that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
(John 5:15-24 RSV-CE)

Here in the 5th chapter of the Gospel of Saint John we can clearly see that Jesus Christ said that He is the Son of God and the Jews even wanted to stone Him for this which proves, in my opinion, that this is what He really meant.

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.
(John 8:58-59 RSV-CE)

Here Jesus Christ clearly says that He is God. Remember "I am" was an Old Testament name for God. Also, He could not have existed before Abraham if He was not God. I would urge you to read the entire 8th chapter of the Gospel of Saint John though as there is more in there.

Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, "Peace be with you." Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe."
(John 20:26-29 RSV-CE)

Here we see Saint Thomas worshiping Jesus and calling Him his God. Jesus commends him for this and says that those who believe in Him even without seeing are blessed. This can only be an affirmation of Saint Thomas' belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

Anyway, there is a lot more in the Bible that shows that Jesus Christ in the Son of God but I am not going to post it. Also, I would urge everyone to read the entire chapters that I showed because I did not post the entire chapter for the sake of brevity.

And so, I sincerely believe with all of my heart that Jesus, Himself, said that He is the Son of God and God Himself. These are my beliefs and I hope that I have explained them well.

ZooGirl02 said:

Well, in my opinion, Jesus made clear in the Bible that He is the Son of God and God. Here is the Bible verses I am talking about:

Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesare'a Philip'pi, he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that the Son of man is?" And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli'jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.
(Matthew 16:13-20 RSV-CE)

As you can see, Peter told him that He is the Christ, the Son of the living God and Jesus commended him for this and even called him blessed. In my opinion, that is an affirmation of his statement that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God.

Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen; but you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life." For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
(John 3:11-18 RSV-CE)

Here we see another part in the Bible where it says that God gave His only begotten Son. The part that says God gave His only begotten Son was written by Saint John the Apostle as a reflection. But remember, Saint John the Apostle was taught by Jesus Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
(John 1:1-5 RSV-CE)

This is a reference to Jesus Christ and in which He is called the Word. It clearly says that He is God.
The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. And this was why the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did this on the sabbath. But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working still, and I am working." This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God. Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all that he himself is doing; and greater works than these will he show him, that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
(John 5:15-24 RSV-CE)

Here in the 5th chapter of the Gospel of Saint John we can clearly see that Jesus Christ said that He is the Son of God and the Jews even wanted to stone Him for this which proves, in my opinion, that this is what He really meant.

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.
(John 8:58-59 RSV-CE)

Here Jesus Christ clearly says that He is God. Remember "I am" was an Old Testament name for God. Also, He could not have existed before Abraham if He was not God. I would urge you to read the entire 8th chapter of the Gospel of Saint John though as there is more in there.

Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, "Peace be with you." Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe."
(John 20:26-29 RSV-CE)

Here we see Saint Thomas worshiping Jesus and calling Him his God. Jesus commends him for this and says that those who believe in Him even without seeing are blessed. This can only be an affirmation of Saint Thomas' belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

Anyway, there is a lot more in the Bible that shows that Jesus Christ in the Son of God but I am not going to post it. Also, I would urge everyone to read the entire chapters that I showed because I did not post the entire chapter for the sake of brevity.

And so, I sincerely believe with all of my heart that Jesus, Himself, said that He is the Son of God and God Himself. These are my beliefs and I hope that I have explained them well.

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Many people are called sons of God in the Bible - and all are told they can be sons of God.

John 20:28 And answered Thomas, and said to him, the Lord/master and one godly to me.

None of these verses has to be taken as Jesus is God.

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Ingledsva said:

Many people are called sons of God in the Bible - and all are told they can be sons of God.

John 20:28 And answered Thomas, and said to him, the Lord/master and one godly to me.

None of these verses has to be taken as Jesus is God.

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What about John 8:58-59 where Jesus calls Himself "I Am"? That was an Old Testament name for God. Also, the Jews of the time wanted to stone Him for saying this so clearly they interpreted Him as saying that He is God. That's the way I interpret it anyway.

Jesus is the Son (Matter) of God (Order), Jesus is also the Son (Matter) of Man (Energy). Thus in the Beginning God created Man (Energy) in his likeness (Jesus) and his Image (Jesus). This Man (Jesus) created Mankind (Energy ordered into Structure).

The first Man created by Jesus was called The Light (Adam) and Jesus separated the light from the Darkness (Eve) and both Adam and Eve were thus created in the Image of God.

The Bible is completely true even if we don't understand it sometimes.

Ingledsva said:

Many people are called sons of God in the Bible - and all are told they can be sons of God.

John 20:28 And answered Thomas, and said to him, the Lord/master and one godly to me.

None of these verses has to be taken as Jesus is God.

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ZooGirl02 said:

What about John 8:58-59 where Jesus calls Himself "I Am"? That was an Old Testament name for God. Also, the Jews of the time wanted to stone Him for saying this so clearly they interpreted Him as saying that He is God. That's the way I interpret it anyway.

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This is mistranslated –
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

It should read something like –
John 8:56 Abraham, your father, was passionate/zealous to behold the age/era of Me, and experience and hail/rejoice.
John 8:57 Said accordingly the Jews to him, fifty years dead, and did not yet even Abraham behold.
John 8:58 Said he Jesus, verily, verily, I say to you, ere (so that) Abraham be fulfilled, I am (I exist.)

Note that that “I am – I exist” is NOT a name.

By the way did you notice this –
John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard from him.
John 8:27 They understood not that he spoke to them of the Father.

And here he makes it plain that he is not God.
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

And –
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Jesus is claiming he is the Jewish Messiah awaited by Abraham.
That Messiah is a special Prophet sent from God, – not God; - and any Jew can confirm that for you.


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Sculelos said:

Jesus is the Son (Matter) of God (Order), Jesus is also the Son (Matter) of Man (Energy). Thus in the Beginning God created Man (Energy) in his likeness (Jesus) and his Image (Jesus). This Man (Jesus) created Mankind (Energy ordered into Structure).

The first Man created by Jesus was called The Light (Adam) and Jesus separated the light from the Darkness (Eve) and both Adam and Eve were thus created in the Image of God.

The Bible is completely true even if we don't understand it sometimes.

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Uh... no. Not based on strict exegesis. You're making some theological leaps here that need both explanation and scholastic support.

sojourner said:

Uh... no. Not based on strict exegesis. You're making some theological leaps here that need both explanation and scholastic support.

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Well we know some facts about Jehovah God.

1. Jehovah is not physical and he has no Physical Body.
2. Jehovah does not exist in the finite realm
3. Jehovah has no end and no beginning for he is infinite
4. Jehovah never changes

Then we know some facts about the Son of God or Jesus.

1. He was the firstborn of all creation
2. He was the creator of all creation except himself.
3. He has a physical body.
4. He also is all physical matter (Whatever you do to the least of these you have done unto me)
5. He had a beginning
6. He also has an ending but he will be/was raised back to life on the 3rd day which was in 28 AD / 6573.3 AD
7. When He ends he will be joined with God as an infinite being as we will be if we humble ourselves and try to do the things he ask of us.

Sculelos said:

Well we know some facts about Jehovah God.

1. Jehovah is not physical and he has no Physical Body.
2. Jehovah does not exist in the finite realm
3. Jehovah has no end and no beginning for he is infinite
4. Jehovah never changes

Then we know some facts about the Son of God or Jesus.

1. He was the firstborn of all creation
2. He was the creator of all creation except himself.
3. He has a physical body.
4. He also is all physical matter (Whatever you do to the least of these you have done unto me)
5. He had a beginning
6. He also has an ending but he will be/was raised back to life on the 3rd day which was in 28 AD / 6573.3 AD
7. When He ends he will be joined with God as an infinite being as we will be if we humble ourselves and try to do the things he ask of us.

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This is all speculation.

Also, if Jesus is the "firstborn of all creation" then he is as some early Christians said - Adam reincarnated. A prophet - not God, nor a part (trinity) of God.

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Ingledsva said:

This is all speculation.

Also, if Jesus is the "firstborn of all creation" then he is as some early Christians said - Adam reincarnated. A prophet - not God, nor a part (trinity) of God.

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If I am speculating then the same writers of the Bible were speculating the same thing even John whom Jesus had called his beloved follower.

1 John 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

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That is to say, Adam was created by Jesus. If Adam was created by Jesus then Jesus can not be Adam.

God by nature is limited to the Infinite realm, he cannot enter into the Physical realm unless he manifest himself as a physical object, thus he chose a likeness of a Man to manifest himself and show mankind what Love was and that Man is Jesus Christ. However Jesus Christ is more then a Man but he is all that is.

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

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Sculelos said:

If I am speculating then the same writers of the Bible were speculating the same thing even John whom Jesus had called his beloved follower.

That is to say, Adam was created by Jesus. If Adam was created by Jesus then Jesus can not be Adam.

God by nature is limited to the Infinite realm, he cannot enter into the Physical realm unless he manifest himself as a physical object, thus he chose a likeness of a Man to manifest himself and show mankind what Love was and that Man is Jesus Christ. However Jesus Christ is more then a Man but he is all that is.

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You missed my point. It is speculation on your part as none of this can be proven - and - a lot of the translations are incorrect, or purposefully altered.

And by the way - none of that says Jesus created Adam.

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Ingledsva said:

This is mistranslated –
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

It should read something like –
John 8:56 Abraham, your father, was passionate/zealous to behold the age/era of Me, and experience and hail/rejoice.
John 8:57 Said accordingly the Jews to him, fifty years dead, and did not yet even Abraham behold.
John 8:58 Said he Jesus, verily, verily, I say to you, ere (so that) Abraham be fulfilled, I am (I exist.)

Note that that “I am – I exist” is NOT a name.

By the way did you notice this –
John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard from him.
John 8:27 They understood not that he spoke to them of the Father.

And here he makes it plain that he is not God.
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

And –
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Jesus is claiming he is the Jewish Messiah awaited by Abraham.
That Messiah is a special Prophet sent from God, – not God; - and any Jew can confirm that for you.


*

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Well, that's your opinion. My opinion is different. If it is a mistranslation then why do all of the major translations translate it as Him calling Himself "I Am"? I have attached a notepad document with about 20 different translations. They all essentially translate it the same way. Are you going to say that this list of approximately 20 translations is wrong? I have included just about all of the major translations of the Bible, several of which are considered to be very reliable. Keep in mind that these were translated by professional translators who are professionals in the ancient languages that the Bible was written in. Please take a look at the note pad document.

In my opinion, the translation is perfectly fine. In my opinion it is clear evidence that Jesus Christ is God.

Also, you said that "I am" is not a name of God. It actually is, in fact, a name of God according to the Old Testament/Hebrew Scriptures:

Then Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?" God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God also said to Moses, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you': this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say to them, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has appeared to me, saying, "I have observed you and what has been done to you in Egypt;
(Exodus 3:13-16 RSV-CE)

Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob--has sent me to you.' "This is my name forever, the name you shall call me from generation to generation. "Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob--appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt.
(Exodus 3:13-16 NIV)

ZooGirl02 said:

Well, that's your opinion. My opinion is different. If it is a mistranslation then why do all of the major translations translate it as Him calling Himself "I Am"? I have attached a notepad document with about 20 different translations. They all essentially translate it the same way. Are you going to say that this list of approximately 20 translations is wrong? I have included just about all of the major translations of the Bible, several of which are considered to be very reliable. Keep in mind that these were translated by professional translators who are professionals in the ancient languages that the Bible was written in. Please take a look at the note pad document.

In my opinion, the translation is perfectly fine. In my opinion it is clear evidence that Jesus Christ is God.

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Because it is basically "I am." As the end of a sentence - not as a NAME. Though they want to give that impression.

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Monotheist 101 said:

I think what it all boils down to in the end is.. Does God need to have a human equivalent of a Son.. or another lesser God for that matter?

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What does "need" have to do with it?

sojourner said:

Uh... no. Not based on strict exegesis. You're making some theological leaps here that need both explanation and scholastic support.

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Boy, you can say that again!

ZooGirl02 said:

Also, you said that "I am" is not a name of God. It actually is, in fact, a name of God according to the Old Testament/Hebrew Scriptures:

Then Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?" God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God also said to Moses, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you': this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say to them, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has appeared to me, saying, "I have observed you and what has been done to you in Egypt;
(Exodus 3:13-16 RSV-CE)

Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob--has sent me to you.' "This is my name forever, the name you shall call me from generation to generation. "Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob--appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt.
(Exodus 3:13-16 NIV)

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This is also a mistranslation -

Thirteen is not telling them "I am" is a name. He tells them in the very next verse that the name to use is YHVH .

15 And Elohiym said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, YHVH, the Elohe of your fathers, the Elohe of Abraham, the Elohe of Isaac, and the Elohe of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is how I should be remembered from generation to generation.

however

Exodus 13-15 has nothing to do with the Jesus verse.

The Jesus verse is not giving a name.

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Me Myself said:

He needs? you mean he would be unable to fulfill his objective without being incarnated?

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Yes. I believe God in Jesus needed to endure the cross, so that His love for us would be manifest thereby drawing us to Him as Lord and Savior.

danieldemol said:

But the Christians themselves state that it is possible to get to the Father by another Prophet logically, since otherwise those who faithfully followed the Jewish Prophets prior to the coming of Jesus would have wasted their time.

All Jesus was saying to the Jews was that it is not acceptable in the view of the Father to accept others and reject Jesus.

To claim that it meant otherwise denies salvation to all those faithful companions of earlier Prophets.

In that sense the Muslims could agree to this statement since they also consider it unacceptable to accept Muhammad while rejecting Jesus.

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I believe you have completely missed what Jesus was saying. There is nothing about rejecting Jesus in that verse. There is nothing about other prophets in that verse.

I believe they have to come to Jesus also and that re-incarnation provides them with that opportunity.

I don't believe Muslims do anything other than pretend to come to Jesus by approaching with their lips but their hearts are far from His message.