Hello. I am a Rationalist....

That means I believe in reality, or things that can be observed, or have been observed or studied. I believe in science, math, and physics.

My story goes like this... I was raised a Catholic. Like most people who were raised in a religion, I never questioned it, but studied it as if it were divine and the truth.

*edit*

So I became a rationalist. I believe that if you want to do something in this world - we only get this one time to do it. Now, I also believe in physics, and physics is a strange beast all by itself. It has numerous theories that suggest a God or Gods is/are not only possible, but probable. It also dictates that since everything is made up of energy - even the void of space - and energy cannot be destroyed - as we observe from black holes; then nothing ever really dies. It also may dictate that this universe gets created and destroyed over and over.

Now with that, I think the egg theory, while it's a little unrefined and off, is the closest description to what could be the most probable theory on life as we know it.

What I want from the rest of you is simple. I don't believe in your religion. I want you to tell me why your religion is right, and why I should follow it. I want you to convert me. If you are successful in finding me a better religion than 'the egg theory', or a religion of the mind which does not belong to any religion, as I described, then I will accept your religion and be done with it....

I want real evidence that your religion is 100% truth. I want to hear what you have to tell me. I want to be saved, I'm just 'lost' right now. Like a child wandering through the wilderness fighting off the beasts - I want you to salvage a lost life. I want you to save me through your faith. Can you succeed? This will be a challenge for you...:sleep::cigar:

Welcome to the forum, dear Zerohour :flower2:

Welcome aboard.

zerohour said:

I want to hear what you have to tell me. I want to be saved, I'm just 'lost' right now. Like a child wandering through the wilderness fighting off the beasts - I want you to salvage a lost life. I want you to save me through your faith.

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Nope.

Greetings!

zerohour said:

What I want from the rest of you is simple. I don't believe in your religion. I want you to tell me why your religion is right, and why I should follow it. I want you to convert me. If you are successful in finding me a better religion than 'the egg theory', or a religion of the mind which does not belong to any religion, as I described, then I will accept your religion and be done with it....

I want real evidence that your religion is 100% truth. I want to hear what you have to tell me. I want to be saved, I'm just 'lost' right now. Like a child wandering through the wilderness fighting off the beasts - I want you to salvage a lost life. I want you to save me through your faith. Can you succeed? This will be a challenge for you...:sleep::cigar:

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No lack of boasting here! Welcome to hopefully a fruitful experience with this mixed forum where you may see more than your own religion as truth.

Welcome.

zerohour said:

What I want from the rest of you is simple. I don't believe in your religion. I want you to tell me why your religion is right, and why I should follow it. I want you to convert me. If you are successful in finding me a better religion than 'the egg theory', or a religion of the mind which does not belong to any religion, as I described, then I will accept your religion and be done with it....

I want real evidence that your religion is 100% truth. I want to hear what you have to tell me. I want to be saved, I'm just 'lost' right now. Like a child wandering through the wilderness fighting off the beasts - I want you to salvage a lost life. I want you to save me through your faith. Can you succeed? This will be a challenge for you...:sleep::cigar:

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Welcome to RF.

I have absolutely no intention of doing what you are asking for here. That would be against the forum rules. If you haven't read them, I would strongly encourage you to.

Hello. Rationalist does not mean that you believe in reality. It means you flatter yourself that you live by thinking rationally. The flaw in this notion is that much of our thinking and behaviour derives from our non-rational subconscious. Often what we think of as being rational is post-hoc cognitive activity to justify what we have said or done.

I won't be wasting my time on your apparent request, but good luck with your baiting.

zerohour said:

That means I believe in reality, or things that can be observed, or have been observed or studied. I believe in science, math, and physics.

My story goes like this... I was raised a Catholic. Like most people who were raised in a religion, I never questioned it, but studied it as if it were divine and the truth.

*edit*

So I became a rationalist. I believe that if you want to do something in this world - we only get this one time to do it. Now, I also believe in physics, and physics is a strange beast all by itself. It has numerous theories that suggest a God or Gods is/are not only possible, but probable. It also dictates that since everything is made up of energy - even the void of space - and energy cannot be destroyed - as we observe from black holes; then nothing ever really dies. It also may dictate that this universe gets created and destroyed over and over.

Now with that, I think the egg theory, while it's a little unrefined and off, is the closest description to what could be the most probable theory on life as we know it.

What I want from the rest of you is simple. I don't believe in your religion. I want you to tell me why your religion is right, and why I should follow it. I want you to convert me. If you are successful in finding me a better religion than 'the egg theory', or a religion of the mind which does not belong to any religion, as I described, then I will accept your religion and be done with it....

I want real evidence that your religion is 100% truth. I want to hear what you have to tell me. I want to be saved, I'm just 'lost' right now. Like a child wandering through the wilderness fighting off the beasts - I want you to salvage a lost life. I want you to save me through your faith. Can you succeed? This will be a challenge for you...:sleep::cigar:

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Welcome to RF. As you can see by my screen name that I also have a Rational bent of mind. The difference being I was fortunate to be brought up in an Ahmadi Muslim family where when I began questioning on topics like; evolution, creation of the universe, Adam (as), purpose of Prophets (as), why we need to believe in God, I got rational answers from people who had a higher understanding of the Quran.

I remember a non-Ahmadi Muslim friend first telling me that Muslims believe Adam (as) was first man and evolution is false, a day when half my world fell apart as I thought Ahmadi were of the same view and everything I liked about science would conflict. Luckily I found the book Revelation Rationality Knowledge and Truth written by Hadrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad (ra), our late Imam.

I wouldn't convince someone to follow any Religion. But ask them to search for the truth and I know they would find it. Christians, Jews, and Non-Ahmadi Muslims should search for the truth of Jesus, while Atheists and Agnostics should search for the truth of God.

zerohour said:

I want real evidence that your religion is 100% truth.

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:sorry1:

Dear Rationalist:

I know exactly where you are coming from. I was raised in the Methodist Church and when I was 10 decided that if the people in church were going to heaven, I could do what I wanted and go to. Attending church was a requirement in my home, so I faithfully attended, sang in the choir, and I'm sure no one knew what I was thinking.

Through most of my life and to be truthful even now, I have kept the same opinion of Christians. I am a voracious reader, and when I compare what I see and hear what so called Christians say and do to what Jesus said and did, they do not come close. Now, however, I am 60+ and I have realized that it is not fair to judge Christ by people waving his flag but not living his life.

I was an accountant by trade. I like numbers because they are changeless. No matter what form of math you are doing, one plus one always equals two. Math gave me a stability I needed throughout life.

Now, however, there is a change. I met Jesus one day and he has changed my life. Every morning when I wake up we have long conversations about things. He has even interceded for me in areas where I could not help myself. The more I read, and study the KJV of the Bible, the more I see his plans for me.

How did he get the attention of someone older, a cynic who is a realist? He dared me. I have never been able to refuse a dare. The dare is found in Malachi 3:10. I took the dare, and he opened the windows of heaven and poured me out so many blessings, that I went to the Bible and found another one. Now I realize, that God knows me intimately, and loves me. He didn't beat me over the head with what he thought, he drew me with love and through my realism. I also found, in the Bible, where he tells us, "Whereby are given to us precious promises, that by these (promises) you may become partakers of the divine nature." 1 Peter 1:4-8.

So, I ask that you find a promise in the Bible, claim it and see if Christ will not show himself to you. I dare you.

Namaste,

Welcome!

M.V.

Magog said:

Hello. Rationalist does not mean that you believe in reality. It means you flatter yourself that you live by thinking rationally...

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This is sort of amusing. This is also NOT really what "rationalist" means. Rationalism is the position that reason or cognition is the chief means of discovering and establishing truth/knowledge. Depending on the context, it can be opposed to Empiricism, which holds that sensory experience, not reason, is the chief means of discovering and establishing truth/knowledge, or Fideism, which holds that religious belief/truth/knowledge cannot be discovered by reason, or Irrationalism, which holds that the world is not fundamentally understandable or regular and thus that reason either cannot discover/establish truth, or that reason alone cannot discover/establish truth.
(and obviously, a "rationalist" is just someone who subscribes to some form of rationalism)
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4consideration said:

I have absolutely no intention of doing what you are asking for here. That would be against the forum rules. If you haven't read them, I would strongly encourage you to.

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I take it this is because this thread was placed in the "Introductions" section? I don't understand why it would be entirely inappropriate to include persuasive/contentious material in a thread posted in the introduction section? This seems unduly anal to me...

enaidealukal said:

I take it this is because this thread was placed in the "Introductions" section? I don't understand why it would be entirely inappropriate to include persuasive/contentious material in a thread posted in the introduction section? This seems unduly anal to me...

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Well, the location of the thread is part of the reason, but not really what I meant in saying I have no intention of doing what the OP is asking people to do because I saw it as against the rules.

I don't do that in real life, and I have no intention of beginning now. That's also part of it.

What I really meant is that I see what the OP is asking people to do, is to behave in a way that may (very likely) be in conflict with the rules of this forum. Attempting to convert people and/or telling people that they ought to believe a certain way is not allowed.

edit: I just realized that I am responding to is someone other than the person that opened the thread, so I have adjusted my wording to be more accurate, regarding who I am addressing. Sorry for my mistake.

zerohour said:

What I want from the rest of you is simple. I don't believe in your religion. I want you to tell me why your religion is right, and why I should follow it. I want you to convert me. If you are successful in finding me a better religion than 'the egg theory', or a religion of the mind which does not belong to any religion, as I described, then I will accept your religion and be done with it....

I want real evidence that your religion is 100% truth. I want to hear what you have to tell me. I want to be saved, I'm just 'lost' right now. Like a child wandering through the wilderness fighting off the beasts - I want you to salvage a lost life. I want you to save me through your faith. Can you succeed? This will be a challenge for you...:sleep::cigar:

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Haha, no.



Welcome to RF

Hello and welcome. :namaste

And, no, I will not try to "save" you...

Welcome, Sir Rationalist! :bow:

To find Truth, one must search beyond "fact".

Welcome.

I don't think you'll find too many, if any, people here who will try to convert you. That's actually what I like about this place - we can learn from each other, hang out together, and get different perspectives. I'm sure that you've heard a lot of the religious arguments before, anyway. I read way, way more than I'll ever post here, and I'm learning about why people believe what they do, and then how they live it out, day to day. Much more useful than challenging others to convert you.

Anyway, welcome from a secular humanist (who is quite comfy remaining one).

zerohour said:

I believe in science, math, and physics.

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What about Goedel, Escher, Bach?

zerohour said:

I want real evidence that your religion is 100% truth.

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Thanks for sharing your beliefs and wants, and welcome ...

Hey Z. When it comes to ideas that cannot be rationalized we all have to find our own truth.