Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
Can the Bible be used as evidence? Can the things that are written about in the Bible be considered true because the Bible is a legitimate source? That's what I want to find out!
Steve posted the paragraph below in another thread, and to escape going off topic I decided to respond to it here. I have posted his entire paragraph in full so that you can all see it in context, and then I have broken it up to make it easier for me to respond to. Lets get this ball rolling!
Another point, even if there were a handful of people who were convinced about Jesus to the point that they would dedicate their lives to his cause, the vast majority of people from that same area--many of whom also came into contact with Jesus and/or knew him personally--were not convinced: Enter the Jews. The point here is that whoever Jesus was, he was not particularly convincing to the majority of people.
And with the "feeling of Christ's presence," one must always remember that "feelings" are highly subjective, and are often the result of what our mind expects/thinks/believes. You may feel overwhelming joy not because the Holy Spirit has transcended upon you, but because you think it has or will.
Closing Statement: I would like to point out that there is no evidence outside of the Bible for many of the things that the Bible claims happened. All that Steve and I have been discussing above is pretty much irrelevent until someone can prove that the events in the Bible are actually historical. Unfortunately, there is much evidence suggesting the contrary, and historians even disagree as to whether or not a figure named Jesus ever existed, son of God or no.
Steve posted the paragraph below in another thread, and to escape going off topic I decided to respond to it here. I have posted his entire paragraph in full so that you can all see it in context, and then I have broken it up to make it easier for me to respond to. Lets get this ball rolling!
Steve said:
Actually, to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever claimed that the books of the Bible were really written by people who knew Jesus personally, (if we're talking about the New Testament, of course). They are accounts of other people's interactions with Jesus. In fact, the Gospels are said to have been written as many as 70 to 100 years after Jesus' death--by that time, everyone who knew Jesus personally was dead too. To top it all off, no one can be certain of the actual identities of the NT authors. Historians have different theories, but no one can seem to reach a definite conclusion.
History does not agree with you here. There have been many accounts, quite recently even, of people dying for false beliefs. What about that one cult from a few years ago where all of its members drank poisoned coolade because they "believed" the aliens were coming?
Another point, even if there were a handful of people who were convinced about Jesus to the point that they would dedicate their lives to his cause, the vast majority of people from that same area--many of whom also came into contact with Jesus and/or knew him personally--were not convinced: Enter the Jews. The point here is that whoever Jesus was, he was not particularly convincing to the majority of people.
They probably didn't think it was a lie--they probably thought it was true. Unfortunately for them, they were the only ones.
I would like everyone to take notice that Steve stops talking about prophecies here. He doesn't offer any specific examples--nothing. Why? Because there are no good examples of fulfilled prophecies in the Bible. The prophecies stated in the Bible are vague at best, and unintelligible at worst.
What caused the members of that cult to commit suicide for their beliefs? Probably the same thing.
These are all subjective experiences, Steve. As far as "people being delivered from demons" goes, for all you know, those people could have been conning you. I'm not trying to demean your experiences here, I'm just trying to be realistic.
And with the "feeling of Christ's presence," one must always remember that "feelings" are highly subjective, and are often the result of what our mind expects/thinks/believes. You may feel overwhelming joy not because the Holy Spirit has transcended upon you, but because you think it has or will.
Closing Statement: I would like to point out that there is no evidence outside of the Bible for many of the things that the Bible claims happened. All that Steve and I have been discussing above is pretty much irrelevent until someone can prove that the events in the Bible are actually historical. Unfortunately, there is much evidence suggesting the contrary, and historians even disagree as to whether or not a figure named Jesus ever existed, son of God or no.
