• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Explain the Trinity

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Deut 13:1 said:
What is it? ect... I want something in YOUR words, not what some article says. Thanks.
My words ? O.K; I don't mind making a fool of myself.

Do you know what I mean by a 'lava lamp' ? (The type of lamp in which the heat from a light bulb makes a 'blob' of oily substance rise to the top of a glass 'vase' shaped container, and when it cools, it comes down again ?) At different times, the mass of the oily substance breaks off into various different blobs, but in the end they all end up as one.

Basically, that is the trinity (for me) The fact that God is the mass, Jesus Christ was a part of that mass of God that became detatched, sent to Earth to live in a body for his lifetime, and then rose again, to rejoin God, and become one with him.

The holy spirit is the liquid that is in that glass container; it fills every part of the world (The container), and it is that that permeates our being; it is the energy, the love of God.
 

lunamoth

Will to love
Hi All, New here. (where are the smilies? I'm sure I'll find them soon. <wave--hi!>)

Ultimately a mystery, but here is an image I like:

I think of the Trinity as a triangle and the triangle is one face of a pyramid. Each Person is a corner of the triangle and isn't it interesting that a corner is only formed when there is the intersection of two lines, a relationship. So each Person at each corner, interacting in love with the other "corners," yet really there is only One triangle. And, this is the Face of God that we can experience: beyond that is much much More.

Once the Trinity was presented to me as our human experience of God and as loving relationship, it settled much more deeply into my heart.

cheers!
lunamoth
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
joeboonda said:
Okay, here goes:

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, like:
H20 the gas, H20 the liquid, H20 the solid.
All still God, All still H20.
The 'three-in-one'.
God!
:)
If you have a quart of water and you freeze it, you have ice. If you have a quart of water and you boil it, you have steam. How do you have the same H2O simultaneously in all three forms? You don't. You can't. When the triune God exist as the Father, what happens to the Son? When He exists as the Son, what happens to the Holy Ghost?
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Deut 13:1 said:
What is it? ect... .
A mystery of my faith.... :D

I give you but one divinity and power, existing one in three, and containing the three in a distinct way. Divinity without disparity of substance or nature, without superior degree that raises up or inferior degree that casts down. . . the infinite co-naturality of three infinites. Each person considered in himself is entirely God. . . the three considered together. . . I have not even begun to think of unity when the Trinity bathes me in its splendor. I have not even begun to think of the Trinity when unity grasps me. ..
(St. Gregory of Nazianzus, Oratio 40,41: PG 36,417)
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Katzpur said:
If you have a quart of water and you freeze it, you have ice. If you have a quart of water and you boil it, you have steam. How do you have the same H2O simultaneously in all three forms? You don't. You can't. When the triune God exist as the Father, what happens to the Son? When He exists as the Son, what happens to the Holy Ghost?
If God is God, then God is omnipotent and transcendent. In other words, other than we human beings. But God is also immanent, or close to us -- one of us. Don't you think that God is able to exist as all three Persons at the same time, if God is omnipotent? Just because we are unable to conceive or understand the mystery of the Trinity, doesn't make it impossible for God to achieve.
 

Aldarrak

New Member
Its like the fire.. There is heat and light. But its fire all in all.

However, it is still a discussed subject in churches till these days.
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
Katzpur said:
If you have a quart of water and you freeze it, you have ice. If you have a quart of water and you boil it, you have steam. How do you have the same H2O simultaneously in all three forms? You don't. You can't. When the triune God exist as the Father, what happens to the Son? When He exists as the Son, what happens to the Holy Ghost?
Quite right. The three states of water idea describes Modalism perfectly, but that is not the doctrine of the Trinity. As Scott said, the Trinity is a Mystery and cannot be fully grasped by man (sometimes he really does sound Orthodox!) but basically, the doctrine is this. God is One in His Divine Essence, His substance if you like, but He is made up of three Hypostases. Hypostasis is usually translated into English as Person, but that's a fairly poor translation, it's more like personal essence, that which makes an individual a unique person. There really isn't a good analogy that can be used because this is utterly other than all beings that we have experience of in real life. The best way I can describe it is this: a human has one essence (that which makes him human) and one hypostasis (that which makes him uniquely him). God has one Essence (that which makes Him Divine) but three Hypostases. He is, then, One God (one individual) in three Hypostases and is always, simultaneously, One according to His essence but Three in His Hypostases. I'm sure that my description fails at many levels, but we were asked to explain in our own words so I can't call on the words of the Fathers. It is impossible to really grasp the Trinity with our rational mind (hence us calling it a Mystery) so I'd be unsurprised if people don't follow my attempt to explain. You can pretty much guarantee that if someone tells you the Trinity is 'simple' they don't have a clear idea of what it means themselves.

James
 

may

Well-Known Member
Deut 13:1 said:
What is it? ect... I want something in YOUR words, not what some article says. Thanks.
its not a bible teaching simple as that,
Many persons think the trinity is a Christian teaching based on God’s Word, the Bible. but it is not , the trinity is a false teaching

Jesus Christ and his apostles did not teach the Trinity

the Trinity was unknown to early churchmen. Actually it was some 400 years or more after the death of Christ that the concept of ‘three persons in one God’ was finally formulated by men and introduced into the church........... now that is what i would call unfaithfulness:tsk:

 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
may said:
its not a bible teaching simple as that,
Many persons think the trinity is a Christian teaching based on God’s Word, the Bible. but it is not , the trinity is a false teaching

Jesus Christ and his apostles did not teach the Trinity

the Trinity was unknown to early churchmen. Actually it was some 400 years or more after the death of Christ that the concept of ‘three persons in one God’ was finally formulated by men and introduced into the church........... now that is what i would call unfaithfulness:tsk:

Someone's been giving you misinformation. Read John's gospel sometime.

The Nicene Creed, which is much newer than the Apostle's Creed, both of which outline the doctrine of the Trinity, came about in 325 c.e., less than 300 years following the crucifixion.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
sojourner said:
Someone's been giving you misinformation. Read John's gospel sometime.

The Nicene Creed, which is much newer than the Apostle's Creed, both of which outline the doctrine of the Trinity, came about in 325 c.e., less than 300 years following the crucifixion.
If you look at may's religious orientation, you might better understand why she is saying what she is; we all have a right to our own beliefs.;)
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
sojourner said:
Someone's been giving you misinformation. Read John's gospel sometime.

The Nicene Creed, which is much newer than the Apostle's Creed, both of which outline the doctrine of the Trinity, came about in 325 c.e., less than 300 years following the crucifixion.
Not to mention that the Trinity is found in pre-Nicene Patristic works. May is, indeed, entitled to her beliefs as Michel said (though why she has to post in this thread is beyond me, how is she going to explain a doctrine she doesn't agree with? It's simply an excuse for some Trinitarian bashing) but you are quite right to correct her erroneous view of history. It's not as if she couldn't get the dates right and still hold her beliefs is it?

James
 

may

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
Someone's been giving you misinformation. Read John's gospel sometime.

The Nicene Creed, which is much newer than the Apostle's Creed, both of which outline the doctrine of the Trinity, came about in 325 c.e., less than 300 years following the crucifixion.
notice i did say (finally formulated ),seems false teachings crept around a bit
 

rocketman

Out there...
You've probably heard the expression Jesus said in Matthew 28:19 "..in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." Note with your full attention that the verse expressly says "in the name," not "in the names." When Moses asked God what his name was he said "I AM" [Ex3:14]. When the Jews questioned Jesus claim that he knew Abraham he said "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I AM!". [John8:58] There is no question of God's oneness, and no question that he has made himself known to us in at least three ways. The trinity is mysterious because God is infinite. Draw near to him and he will draw near to you - you will know him personally and his love will be felt as one love, not three loves. The trinity is our finite beings' attempt to describe what we know [so far] of an infinite being.

Praise the Lord.
 

may

Well-Known Member
rocketman said:
You've probably heard the expression Jesus said in Matthew 28:19 "..in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." Note with your full attention that the verse expressly says "in the name," not "in the names." When Moses asked God what his name was he said "I AM" [Ex3:14]. When the Jews questioned Jesus claim that he knew Abraham he said "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I AM!". [John8:58] There is no question of God's oneness, and no question that he has made himself known to us in at least three ways. The trinity is mysterious because God is infinite. Draw near to him and he will draw near to you - you will know him personally and his love will be felt as one love, not three loves. The trinity is our finite beings' attempt to describe what we know [so far] of an infinite being.

Praise the Lord.

(Psalm 83:18) That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth............. this is the father that is mentioned in matthew 28;19 and Jesus has been exalted by this father

(Philippians 2:9) For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name,........... yes Jesus is our king but he is not the father,

(Revelation 19:16) And upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords. ................and great things can be acomplished if the holy spirit (or Gods active force ) is with his people

and I(Jesus) will request the Father and he will give YOU another helper to be with YOU forever, John 14;16

 

may

Well-Known Member
rocketman said:
You've probably heard the expression Jesus said in Matthew 28:19 "..in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." Note with your full attention that the verse expressly says "in the name," not "in the names." When Moses asked God what his name was he said "I AM" [Ex3:14]. When the Jews questioned Jesus claim that he knew Abraham he said "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I AM!". [John8:58] There is no question of God's oneness, and no question that he has made himself known to us in at least three ways. The trinity is mysterious because God is infinite. Draw near to him and he will draw near to you - you will know him personally and his love will be felt as one love, not three loves. The trinity is our finite beings' attempt to describe what we know [so far] of an infinite being.

Praise the Lord.
regarding Exodus 3;14
At this God said to Moses: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE." And he added: "This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU.

I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE." Heb., &#1492;&#1497;&#1492;&#1488; &#1512;&#1513;&#1488; &#1492;&#1497;&#1492;&#1488; (’Eh·yeh´ ’Asher´ ’Eh·yeh´), God’s own self-designation; Leeser, "I WILL BE THAT I WILL BE"; Rotherham, "I Will Become whatsoever I please." Gr., E·go´ ei·mi ho on, "I am The Being," or, "I am The Existing One"; Lat., e´go sum qui sum, "I am Who I am." ’Eh·yeh´ comes from the Heb. verb ha·yah´, "become; prove to be." Here ’Eh·yeh´ is in the imperfect state, first person sing., meaning "I shall become"; or, "I shall prove to be." The reference here is not to God’s self-existence but to what he has in mind to become toward others. Compare Ge 2:4 ftn, "Jehovah," where the kindred, but different, Heb. verb ha·wah´ appears in the divine name ...for me i like to get the best translations that get back to the original meanings, rather than translations that cloud the thought........... i shall prove to be what i shall prove to be is more like it such be

 

may

Well-Known Member
rocketman said:
You've probably heard the expression Jesus said in Matthew 28:19 "..in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." Note with your full attention that the verse expressly says "in the name," not "in the names." When Moses asked God what his name was he said "I AM" [Ex3:14]. When the Jews questioned Jesus claim that he knew Abraham he said "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I AM!". [John8:58] There is no question of God's oneness, and no question that he has made himself known to us in at least three ways. The trinity is mysterious because God is infinite. Draw near to him and he will draw near to you - you will know him personally and his love will be felt as one love, not three loves. The trinity is our finite beings' attempt to describe what we know [so far] of an infinite being.

Praise the Lord.

Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been................ yes he(Jesus) most certainly was in existence before Abraham , in fact Jesus was in the heavenly realm with his father Jehovah even before man was created, Jesus had a pre-human existence in the heavens before he came to the earth so Jesus here was just being truthful , he was in existence before Abraham .

(Proverbs 8:22) "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; ...collosians 1;15

(John 8:23) So he went on to say to them: "YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world

(John 3:13) Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.​


(John 6:38) because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me............... and who sent him, it was Jehovah God

(John 8:42) Jesus said to them: "If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth

(John 3:16) "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life

 

rocketman

Out there...
may said:

Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been................ yes he(Jesus) most certainly was in existence before Abraham , in fact Jesus was in the heavenly realm with his father Jehovah even before man was created, Jesus had a pre-human existence in the heavens before he came to the earth so Jesus here was just being truthful , he was in existence before Abraham .

Hello May!

I know all about the various translations of Exodus. My point was that he used that particular name, a name that the Jews knew was associated with one God, especially in light of the 'shema' : "Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Elohaynu Adonai Echad.." - "Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One".[Duet6:4] This was a very well known saying in Judaism, much like the Lord's prayer to Christians, and it would have sounded like outright blasphemy to the Jews at the time. God's name and the holy use of it has always been important to him, and he constantly empahised this to Israel. It's simply a fact of first century history that it would have sounded to them that he was saying he was God, because the teaching that there was only one God was an absolute to them. That is why they tried to stone him, and again in John 10:33 "'We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, '"but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God'". Jesus' subsequent answer has been debated every which way, but there is no doubt what they wanted to stone him for, proof that they believed in only one God. So in a culture like that saying "I AM!" is saying you're God.

It is essential to have a thorough understanding of the day and age that Jesus lived in. One example where Jesus was at his most bold about his status was in Luke 19:44 "..because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you". They were supposed to recognize, as John the baptist did from scripture, this event: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." -Is11:6. Also in Isaiah it's interesting to note 42:8 " I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols" .. and yet doubting Thomas worshipped Jesus as "My Lord and my God".
I think when God told Moses his name [I shall prove to be] he was refering to what he knew he would eventually do as Jesus.

When Jesus was asked what the most important commandment of all was, he said in Mark 12:29 "'The most important one', answered Jesus, 'is this:Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.Love the Lord...". Even the teacher who questioned him said: [v32] "You are right in saying that God is one and there is NO OTHER BUT HIM" [emphasis mine]. Did Jesus correct him? No, he said [v34] "You are not far from the kingdom of heaven". For Jesus to quote the shema to the Jews and not try to spin it in anyway is crystal clear evidence that Jesus thinks there is only one God, and none other but one. Please research what the first century expressions 'son of man' and 'son of God' actually mean. The Jews in the new testament obviously knew, and it's why they wanted to kill him.

I get the feeling, May, that I am not going to change your mind but I'm okay with that. I believe God is one, and frankly if he is then everything in the New Testament still makes perfect sense if you accept a God who can be everywhere at once [in 3 ways?]. Anyway, Jesus is my Lord and Saviour, and that's the important thing, right? Sorry about the long post. Love and peace.
 
Top