French Muslim school girls banned from wearing head scarves

is it right?

i dont think so. if they want to practice thier religligion, they should. many girls want to wear the head scarves. its part of thier identity as a muslim.

course, this tends to segregate people, but i think people should make friends, not based on religion, but on thier personality and individualness. this is quite difficult, and yet important for kids and teens.

whats your take?

It's a disturbing infraction on human rights.

I agree with Gerani 1248 and Economist. Interfering with a person's right to wear the clothing prescribed by their religion is a major violation of human rights. Does France claim to have separation of church and state?

Yes. France does have "separation of church and state." In that light, the fanatical headscarf should be banned. They're an impediment to progress and moderation. The assumption that they define the identity of a Muslim is ridiculous. There is no requirement in the Quran to wear such nonsense, which history/rumour has it began as device by Muslim women to deter the Muslim tradition of rape, by hiding their beauty.

My theory is that Muslim women wear headscarfs in the modern country of France because the practice has been forced upon them by their first-generation immigrant parents. In most cases, those parents grew up knowing nothing more than: kill Christians, kill Jews, kill pagans, and follow these fanatical guidelines. The fanatical tradition will only be broken by the interference of some outside source.

OfPeace said:

My theory is that Muslim women wear headscarfs in the modern country of France because the practice has been forced upon them by their first-generation immigrant parents. In most cases, those parents grew up knowing nothing more than: kill Christians, kill Jews, kill pagans, and follow these fanatical guidelines. The fanatical tradition will only be broken by the interference of some outside source.

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Let me get this straight... Headscarfs are a fanatic means of killing Chistians, Jews, and Pagans? They're a weapon of mass destruction? I'm not following what your saying.

heh, yeah just like having christian women wear skirts is a holdover from fanatical days when they wanted to press thier kill Jews, kill Muslims and kill Native peoples...
And the Yamica (sp) is the fanatic Jewish saying kill Muslims, kill Christians et cetera...

that has to be one of the silliest things I think I've heard in a while.
Its called culture, some people have it, most people don't share it, but all should respect it.

Appartently some girls in france are shaving thier heads in protest of this law.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3708444.stm

this whole mess is a shame.

wa:do

OfPeace said:

Yes. France does have "separation of church and state." In that light, the fanatical headscarf should be banned.

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I totally disagree. Separation of church and state means that a nation should neither interfere with or promote religion. France should not interfere with the wearing of headscarfs for the same reason "In God We Trust" should not be on US money.

I like this: shaving of the head. It signals a new beginning.

OfPeace said:

My theory is that Muslim women wear headscarfs in the modern country of France because ...

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Is your "theory" based upon anything substantive, i.e., is it "theory" and "conjecture"?

OfPeace said:

Yes. France does have "separation of church and state." In that light, the fanatical headscarf should be banned. They're an impediment to progress and moderation. The assumption that they define the identity of a Muslim is ridiculous. There is no requirement in the Quran to wear such nonsense, which history/rumour has it began as device by Muslim women to deter the Muslim tradition of rape, by hiding their beauty.

My theory is that Muslim women wear headscarfs in the modern country of France because the practice has been forced upon them by their first-generation immigrant parents. In most cases, those parents grew up knowing nothing more than: kill Christians, kill Jews, kill pagans, and follow these fanatical guidelines. The fanatical tradition will only be broken by the interference of some outside source.

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:sarcastic You really are a hateful piece of work, aren't you?

Back to the original question; I don't think it's right either. But, correct me if I'm wrong - it was a blanket thing, wasn't it? Didn't they ban large crosses, yamacas, and any other "obvious" religious ornaments too?

"Yes. France does have "separation of church and state." In that light, the fanatical headscarf should be banned. They're an impediment to progress and moderation. The assumption that they define the identity of a Muslim is ridiculous. There is no requirement in the Quran to wear such nonsense, which history/rumour has it began as device by Muslim women to deter the Muslim tradition of rape, by hiding their beauty.

My theory is that Muslim women wear headscarfs in the modern country of France because the practice has been forced upon them by their first-generation immigrant parents. In most cases, those parents grew up knowing nothing more than: kill Christians, kill Jews, kill pagans, and follow these fanatical guidelines. The fanatical tradition will only be broken by the interference of some outside source. "


really, how close minded can a statment get?

religion is a huge part of a persons identy. though some may not agree, there are tons of people out there who need spiritual guidance, and they do it by wearing things. like theres a protestant denomination where the woman must wear skirts or dresses, no pants. you know what, frankly i dont care if you wear a head scarf, a burkha, a dress, a crucafix or talismans or a nun's habit. go for it, whatever makes your day.

but what i find is that the french government is doing it for thier safty, so no one will attack them because they are identifyable muslims with a head scarf. i dont know, they are children, and i dont think its quite nice if they are attacked by other children or teased....

its almost (*almost*) like a catch 22. one way or the other, someones gonna be unhappy.

To OfPeace,

You made the following statement in a thread awhile back and I quote:

"I have decided to stop posting inflammatory comments about Islam, because I don’t have the time to produce quotes, figures, and references. (I have decided to do that before I read any of your posts to my last post, and regardless of what any of you have posted to my last post.) I posted some hateful things against my will: the Holy Spirit was directing me to no to go down that path. However, I will not feel guilty, in the future, about stating the truth. Alas, I confess: I am the sinner who is the seed that fell among the thorns:

“And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.” Mat. 13:22

Jesus changed my life significantly. I read used to read the New Testament, and His words affected my decision making. I used to strive to be an emperor: dominant, powerful, and all things to everyone. I used to strive to put to shame those who crossed me. But I committed myself to Jesus, and whatever He said I followed. As a result, instead of there being an atmosphere of hostility, pessimism, and anxiety around me, there has been an atmosphere that is calm, peaceful, pleasant, and optimistic. I am forever grateful to Jesus. I am certain that the west would be like the Middle East, today, without Him."

Seems to me you still haven't "committed yourself to Jesus" by doing "whatever He said I follow". I think you need to take a step back and look at how you are acting towards others and what you say about other people, whether it be true or not. I don't know why but for some reason you feel that Islam and Muslims are your enemy, but didn't Jesus teach to love your enemies and to treat your neighbors as you would yourself. However you don't seem to be "commiting yourself to Jesus" or doing "whatever He said".

A Muslim girl being asked to remove her headscarf would probably feel much like I would if I were asked to come to school naked or in only my underwear. It would be like telling an American (or French, English, German, etc.) girl she can no longer wear a bra when she goes to school, or a married couple that they can no longer wear their wedding rings in public. I think these girls should be allowed to wear their scarves, and if the school insists on enforcing this rule, they should seriously consider the difference between a head scarf and a bra, or a head scarf and a shirt, or a head scarf and a pair of pants... maybe they should ban these things too, since the only reason they believe they must wear clothes is because the religious background of the culture in which they live has dictated that the naked body is impure and should be covered... is this not fanaticism as well, just cleverly disguised?

Are the headscarfs banned only in government schools or in private schools too?

Banning headscarves doesn't seem like a good way to win the hearts and minds of teenagers. Especially teenage women! I learned long ago that you do not --- simply do not --- tell a teenage female what is fashionable, or what she should wear, or why she should wear it. Unless you want to be regarded by her as an impossible fool, of course. Young women have very strong convictions about their dress, they tend to put a lot of time and thought into what they want to wear, and they don't appreciate meddling. The French government can't win on this one.

"Banning headscarves doesn't seem like a good way to win the hearts and minds of teenagers. Especially teenage women! I learned long ago that you do not --- simply do not --- tell a teenage female what is fashionable, or what she should wear, or why she should wear it. Unless you want to be regarded by her as an impossible fool, of course. Young women have very strong convictions about their dress, they tend to put a lot of time and thought into what they want to wear, and they don't appreciate meddling. The French government can't win on this one."

big trouble, never mess with freedom of fashion. ive found out, with the help of the new french exchange students, that the french are much more stylish than the americans.

i just hate going past abercrombie and fitch in the mall and see soft core porn on thier walls. sigh.. who the hell pays 100 dollars for ripped jeans!? i can get quality ripped things at the Salvation Army. oh well.

oh, did you hear? White is soo the new black.

I'd like to register my unease at the blatant lack of respect, and clear hatred shown to muslim people using this forums by another member. I'm surprised, frankly, that the post has not been removed, or edited as of yet.

Regarding the issue of headscarves, they're just headscarves. If they don't comply with school dress code then no they shoudn't be worn. I was never allowed to wear my hat in class.

truthseekingsoul said:

I'd like to register my unease at the blatant lack of respect, and clear hatred shown to muslim people using this forums by another member. I'm surprised, frankly, that the post has not been removed, or edited as of yet.

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I'm proud of the way this Forum allows freedom of expression (i.e. posts are not removed), but refuses to condone hatefulness (i.e. posts are freely criticized for hatefulness). Those values consistently seem to be part of the culture of this Forum.

Sunstone said:

I'm proud of the way this Forum allows freedom of expression (i.e. posts are not removed), but refuses to condone hatefulness (i.e. posts are freely criticized for hatefulness). Those values consistently seem to be part of the culture of this Forum.

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I'm not a great fan of censorship in any form myself.

I had the idea in my head, though, that the rules were broken on that post, very clearly. I've broken the rules myself on this forum (not intentionally) and I've found my posts edited partially or completely.

Further, I think anyone posting messages conveying clearly hateful messages about a major religion on a religious forum is surely incapable of showing the respect required to debate and discuss with people professing contrary views.