John Shelby Spong

I have been reading a lot of Spong's work... And let me say that he is probably one of the most intelligent and convincing philosophers/theologians I have ever had the pleasure to read. I was wondering 1) How Christians on RF feel about him 2) Are there any churches (or specific denominations) that preach a theology and/or ideology similar to Spong?

I like him. He does have some problems in his work, where he overly stretches, but all in all, he has a great message.

There are a quite a few churches that teach similar ideas. Spong is related to Progressive Christianity, and they have a number of churches across the country (or more like churches who are taking the same ideas. Various denominations will actually accept the tenets of Progressive Christianity, while remaining a different denomination).

fallingblood said:

I like him. He does have some problems in his work, where he overly stretches, but all in all, he has a great message.

There are a quite a few churches that teach similar ideas. Spong is related to Progressive Christianity, and they have a number of churches across the country (or more like churches who are taking the same ideas. Various denominations will actually accept the tenets of Progressive Christianity, while remaining a different denomination).

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Is there any way of knowing what churches teach his view or similar? I want to go to one.

ProgressiveChristianity.org ( » Global Network). At the bottom of this page there is a directory of sorts. The website itself is also a great resource in itself.

Thanks. Looking.

Don't see anything for my local area though. I'll keep an eye on it for information though.

I've never heard of this guy but this from what I've read we seem to have pretty similar views on things.

I've always had an interest in Jesus but have been pushed away due to the many Christian doctrines out there I simply cant agree with, however he seems to get rid of most of these doctrines and is embracing a more rational religious perspective.

Sadly I dont think Progressive Christianity will ever get that big mainly for 2 reasons:

1. it's views take a lot of power and control away from the Church, and a lot of people arent going to be too happy with that..
2. His views on religious issues arent simple. People tend to be more attracted to simply answers, and although I personally agree with most of his views, getting the public to accept and understand them will be a lot more difficult then simply saying: "Your a sinner, just accept Jesus and your good to go"

I might have to buy one of his books someday, thanks for sharing xkatz.

Odion said:

Thanks. Looking.

Don't see anything for my local area though. I'll keep an eye on it for information though.

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Try the Unitarian Church. They're great.

punkdbass said:

I've always had an interest in Jesus but have been pushed away due to the many Christian doctrines out there I simply cant agree with, however he seems to get rid of most of these doctrines and is embracing a more rational religious perspective.

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I've read a couple of his books and I think he's great. Looking at the Gospels in the as midrashic narratives trying to link Jesus with OT figures makes a lot more sense than looking at them as literal records of historical events.

-Shem

stephenw said:

Try the Unitarian Church. They're great.

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Sadly I'm too far out to get to a Unitarian church without spending about an hour and a bit on buses.

xkatz said:

I have been reading a lot of Spong's work... And let me say that he is probably one of the most intelligent and convincing philosophers/theologians I have ever had the pleasure to read. I was wondering 1) How Christians on RF feel about him 2) Are there any churches (or specific denominations) that preach a theology and/or ideology similar to Spong?

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Tell me Xkatz, are you talking about that Episcopal Bishop who wrote about the thorn in Paul's flesh as being his struggle with repressed homosexual feelings? I am not putting up the issue for discussion. I just would like to identify this "Most intelligent and convincing philosopher and theologian" you claim him to have been.

SageTree said:

I have read Spong's words on that matter. So I'd say he is the one you suspect.

Not discussing it either. Just helping you identify him correctly.

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And you still "Love this dude" with the same credibility even after his testimony about Paul as he whose thorn in the flesh was his struggle against repressed homosexual feelings? If he is right as his credibility stands for him, his remark is quite compromising vis-a-vis the founder of Christianity. Paul, that is. (Acts 11:26)

Greetings,

Bishop Spong just released his book "The Fourth Gospel: Tales of a Jewish Mystic." Through Spong Christianity is 'reformulating' itself towards 'building a New Christianity for a New World.' He explains elaborately in the book.

This book is likely to resonate with modern day mystics. It offers as one of Spong's very learned conclusions - "Jesus is the one who achieved the mystical oneness with the God who is the source of life, the source of love and the Ground of Being." This mystical oneness is a possibility to be realized by any of us and it appears from other statements in the book that Spong is an example.

Best wishes,
a1

autonomous1one1 said:

Greetings,

Bishop Spong just released his book "The Fourth Gospel: Tales of a Jewish Mystic." Through Spong Christianity is 'reformulating' itself towards 'building a New Christianity for a New World.' He explains elaborately in the book.

This book is likely to resonate with modern day mystics. It offers as one of Spong's very learned conclusions - "Jesus is the one who achieved the mystical oneness with the God who is the source of life, the source of love and the Ground of Being." This mystical oneness is a possibility to be realized by any of us and it appears from other statements in the book that Spong is an example.

Best wishes,
a1

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Wow, I'll have to look at it.

I've found some of his things to be kind of... I dunno, lacking in terms of depth (it felt kind of only like an idea), so a bit of mysticism would be excellent.

One word for Spong on the matter of 'mystical union' and learned conclusions.

Theosis, which is essentially the road to salvation in the Orthodox faith.

Mewonders if Spong has read much EOC writings?

Dear Friends,

I must admit that Bishop John Shelby Spong has never wrote a book that has so far touched or appealed to me in a significant way. I feel a bit like a "party-pooper" right now, stomping on other peoples' parades, since I seem to be the only one so far with a negative evaluation of this man's theology.

The only attractive idea I have found in his writings, the only idea which seems to have any pedigree or basis in the church's sacred tradition, is that of his "God beyond Theism". This shares significant parallels with the thought of Western, Roman Catholic mystics such as Meister Eckhart, Blessed Henry Suso, Angelus Silesius and Blessed Jan van Ruysbroeck.

Other than that, I honestly cannot say that I am a fan.

He certainly would not be embraced theologically speaking by the Catholic or Orthodox Churches. He rejects the main dogmas of the church or re-interprets the core essentials of Christian Faith in such a loose manner as to render them altogether different teachings.

When I read him, I almost feel as if he has gone through the Bible, Early Church Fathers and the Creeds with a red pen, scrubbing out every ancient, perennial truth that he finds unpalatable.

Archbishop Rowan Williams, a man I truly do respect, publically and blatantly disagreed with Spong when he was primate of the Anglican Communion. Williams was a true orthodox man who believed in the fullness of the faith.

I am in his court on this one.

Don't get me wrong. Spong has some things right such as his rejection of biblical literalism with regards to creation and his contention that prayer should not be seen as a request for a theistic deity to do something. However on this later point he offers nothing "new", as he seems to think, since Christianity already considers this kind of prayer to be its highest form - mystical prayer as F.C Happold explained it in his 1970 book on mysticism:

"...Mystical prayer is nothing to do with the words and petitions of what is commonly called prayer. It is not articulate; it has no form. It is, in the words of a medieval English mystic,' naught else but a yearning of soul', wherein the soul is united to God in its ground without the intervention of imagination or reason or of anything but a simple attention of the mind and a humble, self-forgetting action of the will..."

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However were he gets it wrong, he gets it very wrong IMHO.

All I can say is that I am personally thankful that his views are not normative in the Anglican Communion, or else attempts to revive union between Anglicans and their Orthodox and Catholic brothers, would become rather remote.

I hope I have not offended anyone who is appreciative of Spong :faint:

SageTree said:

One word for Spong on the matter of 'mystical union' and learned conclusions.

Theosis, which is essentially the road to salvation in the Orthodox faith.

Mewonders if Spong has read much EOC writings?

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Hmm...Out of all the Christian denominations, Orthodoxy has maintained the "old ways" more than any other and defended with fervour the fullness of the faith without significant adaptions to modernity. Orthodoxy means "right-thinking", although it is as much orthopraxy as orthodoxy.

On that account, I doubt that his theology at least has been much informed by Eastern Orthodoxy

I hope that I am wrong, since he could be doing IMHO with significant influence from the Orthodox Church in his theology.

In my opinion, John Shelby Spong is not an orthodox Christian with an orthodox faith. However he is an honest Christian with an honest, earnest Christian faith that he does not hide but boldly presents to the world. For that reason, I applaud him even though I must disagree with him greatly.

I really admire the fact that Christianity has developed to become so broad post-Protestant Reformation as to be inclusive of men such as Bishop Spong. His theology stands as a useful challenge to all of us, even if I see it from a personal perspective as being significantly problematic.

Considering that he rejects such fundamental beliefs as:

• The Virgin Birth of Jesus.
• The miracles Jesus did.
• The atoning sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.
• The true and physical resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
• The ascension of Jesus into Heaven.

And considering that he seems to be a universalist and a relativist, I do not have a favorable opinion of him to say the least.

Vouthon said:

On that account, I doubt that his theology at least has been much informed by Eastern Orthodoxy

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I am not offended at all and I pretty much agree with what you say.
There are places he goes that are too far perhaps, but sometime it takes a far left to find the centre again?

I think the lens of "God beyond Theism" is what I read him through,
so perhaps I am more intrigued with the rest of what he has to say based on that alone.

The last line in my post wondering if he's read Orthodox writings isn't to suggest that he knows what theosis or any other EO-theology.....

Rather, I am agreeing with your sentiment of 'he presents nothing new',
so am saying I wonder if he knows this 'new' idea, is really just an 'old' idea.

I hope that clarifies what I meant.