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wait...what?! he came to start a new religion

4YAH80

Member
I just had a rather eye opening conversation with a co-worker, She says that Christianity is the True religion because it is the religion taught in the bible....this is my first time hearing someone say this. I have been reading and studying the bible for a little over a year now (read it through twice) and not once did I see anything about Christianity being given as a religion by the Most High or his son....where did she get this idea from?

What was the Messiah's mission? Was he sent to us to start a new religion in his fathers name? Or was he simply an example like I have come to believe? Does anyone else believe as my co-worker does?

Any and all opinions are welcomed.
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
I believe that christianity is just a judaism simplified in the rites but same in the spiritual way
(As long as it doesn't involve the trinity concept)
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Allowing that Jesus existed for the sake of debate, and assuming the NT is mostly reliable- I'd agree he wouldn't have thought he was starting a new religion.

The only two professions of faith he ever gave are re-affirmations of Jewish Monotheism- the Shema and the Lord's Prayer.

On the other hand he would definitely have been a Jewish reformer, and if He actually did claim divine sonship- quite an unorthodox one.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Your co-worker's philisophical view of her own religion (Christianity) is woefully common, and it is a text-book example of circular reasoning. "This book is infallible, because this book says that it is infallible." :facepalm:

As for your main question.....my thoughts are like yours. Per the Christian dogma, God created a human avatar/son that was named Jesus, and Jesus was to be an example of humble, anti-violent, anti-greed living.
 

4YAH80

Member
I thought I missed the verse where the Messiah said "here! come get some Christianity!" lol I had never heard anyone say this before, took everything I had not to laugh.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
I thought I missed the verse where the Messiah said "here! come get some Christianity!" lol I had never heard anyone say this before, took everything I had not to laugh.

I think you'd come up just as short if you looked for him advertising any religion. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism included.

But sure let's pretend his views were just Jewish.
 

4YAH80

Member
I believe that christianity is just a judaism simplified in the rites but same in the spiritual way
(As long as it doesn't involve the trinity concept)
I don't think that Christianity has anything to do with Judaism, and that the Judaism of today has nothing to do with the way of life presented in the bible, being that neither one seems to adhere to what the Hebrews practiced (which I don't see as a religion but more a way of life).
 

4YAH80

Member
I think you'd come up just as short if you looked for him advertising any religion. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism included.

But sure let's pretend his views were just Jewish.

I don't think he offered anyone Judaism either, he offered a way of life in my humble opinion.
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
I don't think that Christianity has anything to do with Judaism, and that the Judaism of today has nothing to do with the way of life presented in the bible, being that neither one seems to adhere to what the Hebrews practiced (which I don't see as a religion but more a way of life).

Why "anything" to do ?
They're supposed to believe at the same prophets as the jews, the story of the Creation and all that it involves since Genesis, they believe in the same God (as long it's not Jesus).
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Why "anything" to do ?
They're supposed to believe at the same prophets as the jews, the story of the Creation and all that it involves since Genesis, they believe in the same God (as long it's not Jesus).

That's just it though, most Christians do believe Jesus is god, and they also interpret the Jewish scriptures in largely unJewish ways, such as making sacrifice for sin a necessity in order to squeeze Jesus in while forgetting passages like Ezekiel 18.20 that clearly say no one else can die for your sins.

Christianity is about as Jewish as rice is purple.
 

4YAH80

Member
Why "anything" to do ?
They're supposed to believe at the same prophets as the jews, the story of the Creation and all that it involves since Genesis, they believe in the same God (as long it's not Jesus).
I say anything because the religions of today (christianity) say they believe all those things and then turn right around and worship idols, pray to other gods, totally ignore the commandments, and basically tell people what they want to hear instead of what they need to hear in order to keep people in the pews.
 

4YAH80

Member
That's just it though, most Christians do believe Jesus is god, and they also interpret the Jewish scriptures in largely unJewish ways, such as making sacrifice for sin a necessity in order to squeeze Jesus in while forgetting passages like Ezekiel 18.20 that clearly say no one else can die for your sins.

Christianity is about as Jewish as rice is purple.
exactly!! there is a big problem with the Hebrew scriptures being looked at in a "western" way. I think that is where most if not all of the confusion stems from.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
It sounds like your co-worker is dabbling in Muslim apologetics.

Islam is presented as the original religion, as it means to submit to God. Often, Muslims will explain that the patriarchs practiced it correctly, but man corrupted the message in both Torah and the Christian Bible. Your co-worker is doing the same, only using Christianity. It's not really all that uncommon, but not as common the idea that Christianity "replaced" Judaism, hence the "New Covenant".
 

4consideration

*
Premium Member
I say anything because the religions of today (christianity) say they believe all those things and then turn right around and worship idols, pray to other gods, totally ignore the commandments, and basically tell people what they want to hear instead of what they need to hear in order to keep people in the pews.

Who are "they"? Are you referring to religions, or people?

Also, I am interested to see what you can provide to show what "they" say vs. what "they" do.
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
I say anything because the religions of today (christianity) say they believe all those things and then turn right around and worship idols, pray to other gods, totally ignore the commandments, and basically tell people what they want to hear instead of what they need to hear in order to keep people in the pews.

I think then it depends how you view Christianity, how you understand the Bible.
When i read the New Testament, i'm not reading something far from Judaism.

The title of your topic is "he came to start a new religion".
I don't believe that Jesus devied from the principles of Judaism.
But yes, some christians did/do.
 

4YAH80

Member
Who are "they"? Are you referring to religions, or people?

Also, I am interested to see what you can provide to show what "they" say vs. what "they" do.
I am referring to religions because of their doctrine and people because they follow these doctrines without so much as opening the bible (most not all)
 

jtartar

Well-Known Member
I just had a rather eye opening conversation with a co-worker, She says that Christianity is the True religion because it is the religion taught in the bible....this is my first time hearing someone say this. I have been reading and studying the bible for a little over a year now (read it through twice) and not once did I see anything about Christianity being given as a religion by the Most High or his son....where did she get this idea from?

What was the Messiah's mission? Was he sent to us to start a new religion in his fathers name? Or was he simply an example like I have come to believe? Does anyone else believe as my co-worker does?

Any and all opinions are welcomed.

4YAH80,
It is very difficult to explain Biblical teachings to a person without Praecognita, when the Bible is Terra Incognita to them.
What your friend said is actually correct, but he did not start the new religion, because Jesus was born under the Mosaic Law Covenant, so he was under that law, and being under that law he would have qualified to be stoned to death, if he taught another way, Deut 13:1-5. Jesus started the foundation of the Christian Congregation. Jesus even told the Jews that their House, The Temple was abandoned, and that the Kingdom would be given to a people who would produce fruits, Matt 21:42-46, 23:37,38.
Let me explain!! I beg you to meditate on what I say, for I have studied the Holy Scriptures for over 55 years.
Jesus was born under the Mosaic Law Covenant, Gal 4:4. One of the important things that Jesus came to earth for, was to end the Mosaic Law Covenant!! The reason was; it was a law of sin and death, Rom 6:23, Gal 3:10-14, 2Cor 3:6,7, Rom 7:6, 8:1-4, 6:14,15, Gal 5:18, Col 2:13,14.
Jesus was telling about a New Covenant that he instituted on the night before his death, Luke 22:19, 20, 1Cor 11:23-26, Heb 8:6-13, 10:14-20.
JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US BECAUSE THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND BULLS COULD NOT TAKE AWAY THE SINS OF MANKIND, Heb 9:11-15, 10:1-4, 8-11.
The Mosaic Law Covenant was an interim Covenant, a De BENE ESSE Covenant, only to be in force until the Messiah would come, Jesus, Jere 31:31-34. The Law Covenant acted as a tutor for the nation of Israel until Messiah, Christ, Gal 3:23-26.
All the nation of Israel that continued to have faith in God changed and became Christians. These ones are called The REMNANT, Rom 9:27, 11:5. That Christian Congregation started at Pentecost 33CE when Jesus, who had gone back to heaven had poured out the Holy Spirit from God upon a small group of Jesus followers, Acts 2:1-21. The Holy Spirit on this small group enabled them to do miraculous powers, this to prove to the Jews that God had transferred His blessing on this small group, who were later called Christians, Acts 11:26, 26:28, 1Pet 4:16.
The Jews had been under the Mosaic Law Covenant for over 1,500 years, so something very strong and different was needed to show them that they were no longer blessed by Him, that He had turned His blessing to the small group gathered in Jerusalem on Pentecost.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
That's just it though, most Christians do believe Jesus is god, and they also interpret the Jewish scriptures in largely unJewish ways, such as making sacrifice for sin a necessity in order to squeeze Jesus in while forgetting passages like Ezekiel 18.20 that clearly say no one else can die for your sins.

Christianity is about as Jewish as rice is purple.

Something else I noticed in Ezekiel 18 ...

18:21-22 puts the lie to the Christian idea I keep hearing, where they say one can be a monster (such as Hitler,) and then truly believe on your death bed, and you get to go to heaven!

Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
 

4YAH80

Member
4YAH80,
It is very difficult to explain Biblical teachings to a person without Praecognita, when the Bible is Terra Incognita to them.
What your friend said is actually correct, but he did not start the new religion, because Jesus was born under the Mosaic Law Covenant, so he was under that law, and being under that law he would have qualified to be stoned to death, if he taught another way, Deut 13:1-5. Jesus started the foundation of the Christian Congregation. Jesus even told the Jews that their House, The Temple was abandoned, and that the Kingdom would be given to a people who would produce fruits, Matt 21:42-46, 23:37,38.
Let me explain!! I beg you to meditate on what I say, for I have studied the Holy Scriptures for over 55 years.
Jesus was born under the Mosaic Law Covenant, Gal 4:4. One of the important things that Jesus came to earth for, was to end the Mosaic Law Covenant!! The reason was; it was a law of sin and death, Rom 6:23, Gal 3:10-14, 2Cor 3:6,7, Rom 7:6, 8:1-4, 6:14,15, Gal 5:18, Col 2:13,14.
Jesus was telling about a New Covenant that he instituted on the night before his death, Luke 22:19, 20, 1Cor 11:23-26, Heb 8:6-13, 10:14-20.
JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US BECAUSE THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND BULLS COULD NOT TAKE AWAY THE SINS OF MANKIND, Heb 9:11-15, 10:1-4, 8-11.
The Mosaic Law Covenant was an interim Covenant, a De BENE ESSE Covenant, only to be in force until the Messiah would come, Jesus, Jere 31:31-34. The Law Covenant acted as a tutor for the nation of Israel until Messiah, Christ, Gal 3:23-26.
All the nation of Israel that continued to have faith in God changed and became Christians. These ones are called The REMNANT, Rom 9:27, 11:5. That Christian Congregation started at Pentecost 33CE when Jesus, who had gone back to heaven had poured out the Holy Spirit from God upon a small group of Jesus followers, Acts 2:1-21. The Holy Spirit on this small group enabled them to do miraculous powers, this to prove to the Jews that God had transferred His blessing on this small group, who were later called Christians, Acts 11:26, 26:28, 1Pet 4:16.
The Jews had been under the Mosaic Law Covenant for over 1,500 years, so something very strong and different was needed to show them that they were no longer blessed by Him, that He had turned His blessing to the small group gathered in Jerusalem on Pentecost.

I understand what you are saying, but nowhere in scripture is the word Christianity written, this is an invention of man, not from the Most High or his son. I believe the Messiah came to show us how to live by The Most high's commandments and statutes, which Christianity does not do. What I do agree with is your statement that the Hebrews are no longer blessed, they are cursed because they continue to be disobedient , but the covenant they made with the Most High is still in effect, Israel has to turn back to The Most High.

Romans 11:1-3

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.


Thanks for the input!
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
"Christianity is the True religion because it is the religion taught in the bible."

Your friend is a silly bumpkin who doesn't see the glaring fallacy of circular logic.

Islam is the True religion because it is the religion taught in the Koran.

Judaism is the true religion because it is the religion taught in the Talmud.

Hinduism is the true religion because it is the religion taught in the Bhagavad Gita.

Buddhism is the true religion because it is the religion taught in the Sutras.

Jainism is the true religion because it is the religion taught in the Agamas.

Sikhism is the true religion because it is the religion taught in the Gurmukhi.

Baha'ism is the true religion because it is the religion taught in the Kitab-i-Aqdas.

Scientology is the true religion because it is the religion taught in Dianetics.
 
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