Prayers to Mary (and other Saints) (Christians)

jtartar said:

ForeverFaithful,
:sorry1: Many things have been done that were wrong during, what is now called the Dark Ages.
The Bible says that God is the Hearer of Prayer, Ps 65:2. Jesus himself said it is only to God that we should render sacred service, Matt 4:10.
Paul said that there is one mediator between man and God, a man, Jesus Christ, 1Tim 2:5. When Peter gave one of his talks soon after Pentecost of 33CE he said that God had given ONE name on earth by which we must get saved, and that there is no salvation in anyone else, Acts 4:12.
Paul said that the man is the HEAD of the woman, 1Cor 11:3. Paul said that a woman should not have authority over a man, 1Tim 2:12. God had written that He is a Jealous God who is exacting EXCLUSIVE DEVOTION, Ex 20:5, 34:14.
Anyone praying to anyone other than Jehovah God is going against God's commandment and is not pleasing to Him. Only the one calling on God's name will be saved, Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, Rom 10:13.

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OK, I'll ask you too - do you ever pray for anyone else? If so, you are being a mediator.

SALVATION can come from no one other than God through His Son Jesus. That is what the word "mediator" is referring to in that oft-quoted passage.

Protestants often confuse "prayer" with "worship." Those are two different things, though you may worship BY praying. Prayer is communication.

Those saints who have gone on before us are outside of linear time. There are several passages in the bible which refer to them as being interested and somewhat involved in what goes on on this earth, though they have departed it. We are united with our brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of whether we or they are "dead" or "alive" - ie, living on this earth. We are all part of God's family.

We are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses.

The Rosary is not worshipping Mary. It is veneration. And praying to Mary, as choices go..is not a bad one.

SaintAugustine said:

The Rosary is not worshipping Mary. It is veneration. And praying to Mary, as choices go..is not a bad one.

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Assuming she can even hear you. I'm not aware of any Scriptural evidence indicating she is omnipresent. For your sake and for the sake of those who've spent countless hours praying to her, I hope the Holy Spirit is passing along your messages to her

Junglej25 said:

Assuming she can even hear you. I'm not aware of any Scriptural evidence indicating she is omnipresent. For your sake and for the sake of those who've spent countless hours praying to her, I hope the Holy Spirit is passing along your messages to her

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Cool post! Thanks for hoping she can hear us!

Scott1 said:

Cool post! Thanks for hoping she can hear us!

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While we have ZERO Scriptural evidence that she can here us, the good news is that you can still use the famous Catholic apologetic of appealing to the longevity of such extra-biblical practices as evidence of their "trustworthiness."

Junglej25 said:

While we have ZERO Scriptural evidence that she can here us, the good news is that you can still use the famous Catholic apologetic of appealing to the longevity of such extra-biblical practices as evidence of their "trustworthiness."

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Hebrews 11 and 12 makes it very clear that the saints who have gone before us are aware of our activities. They surround us as a great cloud of witnesses.

Death doesn't separate us from the Body of Christ. We are united in Christ with all the saints who have gone before us and all who will come after us. We are also a part of that cloud of witnesses.

1 Timothy 2

1 I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men:

2For kings, and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity.

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

5For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:

6Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.

7Whereunto I am appointed a preacher and an apostle, (I say the truth, I lie not,) a doctor of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

8I will therefore that men pray in every place, lifting up pure hands, without anger and contention.

Junglej25 said:

While we have ZERO Scriptural evidence that she can here us, the good news is that you can still use the famous Catholic apologetic of appealing to the longevity of such extra-biblical practices as evidence of their "trustworthiness."

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Thanks again!

Kathryn said:

Hebrews 11 and 12 makes it very clear that the saints who have gone before us are aware of our activities. They surround us as a great cloud of witnesses.

Death doesn't separate us from the Body of Christ. We are united in Christ with all the saints who have gone before us and all who will come after us. We are also a part of that cloud of witnesses.

1 Timothy 2

1 I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men:

2For kings, and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity.

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

5For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:

6Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.

7Whereunto I am appointed a preacher and an apostle, (I say the truth, I lie not,) a doctor of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

8I will therefore that men pray in every place, lifting up pure hands, without anger and contention.

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Kathryn, thank you..yes, they are are aware of our activities.

1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith.

Hebrews 12:1

Matt. 17:1-3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30-31 – deceased Moses and Elijah appear at the Transfiguration to converse with Jesus in the presence of Peter, James and John...

Matt. 27:47,49; Mark 15:35-36 – the people believe that Jesus calls on Elijah for his intercession, and waits to see if Elijah would come to save Jesus on the cross. He was in fact quoting the opening lines of psalm 22.

5His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. John 2:5..one of the few biblical quotes from Mary.

why pray to or through dead saints, they are just humans and can do us no good at all, they are no better than us.

miss interpret said:

why pray to or through dead saints, they are just humans and can do us no good at all, they are no better than us.

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Do you ever pray for anyone else or ask anyone to pray for you?

Kathryn said:

Do you ever pray for anyone else or ask anyone to pray for you?

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Yes but I am very much alive and anyone I ask to pray for me are very much alive.The idea of praying to Mary or using her as an intercessor does not seem biblical to me and they same goes to praying through and of the apostels, the bible talks about one way to the father and I believe that is right.

miss interpret said:

Yes but I am very much alive and anyone I ask to pray for me are very much alive.The idea of praying to Mary or using her as an intercessor does not seem biblical to me and they same goes to praying through and of the apostels, the bible talks about one way to the father and I believe that is right.

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I think you must be talking about the Lord's Prayer - is that correct? If so, that is just one example of a prayer.

As for you being very much alive, aren't we still alive when we die? I mean, even more alive than we are here on the earth?

Paul tells us that we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses - the saints who have gone on before us are those witnesses. "Witnesses" means they are witnessing our actions here on this earth - they surround us and watch us and their example is given to us for strength.

I believe in the communion of the saints - all saints, not just the ones who are alive today. Every Christian who has lived and died before and after me is part of that communion.

I'm not Catholic by the way. Just for the record.

"Witnesses" means they are witnessing our actions here on this earth - they surround us and watch us and their example is given to us for strength.

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Just to clarify -- and I agree with you, BTW -- "witnesses" here refers to those who witness to the grace of God in Christ.

miss interpret said:

Yes but I am very much alive and anyone I ask to pray for me are very much alive.The idea of praying to Mary or using her as an intercessor does not seem biblical to me and they same goes to praying through and of the apostels, the bible talks about one way to the father and I believe that is right.

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We view time in a linear way. That's not the way the ancients perceived time. To them, events in the past could be made present in the here-and-now (to wit: the Eucharist -- "...in all times and in all places." Anamnesis, the Greek word used in the texts, means more than "recall to mind." It means a literal bringing of a past event into the present, so we can participate in it). Therefore, asking the help of those who have gone before, in a Biblical context, is advisable.

sojourner said:

We view time in a linear way. That's not the way the ancients perceived time. To them, events in the past could be made present in the here-and-now (to wit: the Eucharist -- "...in all times and in all places." Anamnesis, the Greek word used in the texts, means more than "recall to mind." It means a literal bringing of a past event into the present, so we can participate in it). Therefore, asking the help of those who have gone before, in a Biblical context, is advisable.

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Excellent response. Thank you, you said it better than I could.

what saints are you referring to? I do not believe you are supposed to pray to anyone except the Most High, and through the Messiah's name.

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." (James 5:16)
"Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”" (John 11:25-26)

Seems like a good basis for intercession of the Saints to me. We pray for others, and the Saints who are dead to this world even in the physical sense but who are truly alive in Christ and with Him now pray for us as well, and we can ask them to pray for us, or praise their faith-filled lives and hold them as examples for all the faithful. This is what the Church has been doing since the days of St. Stephen the first Martyr in the Book of Acts.

-Peacemaker- said:

While we have ZERO Scriptural evidence that she can here us, the good news is that you can still use the famous Catholic apologetic of appealing to the longevity of such extra-biblical practices as evidence of their "trustworthiness."

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1 Peter 4:6. The dead live as God lives. Therefore, if God can hear us, the dead who live in Christ can also hear us.

:yes:

John 17:11. We are one, as Christ and the Father are One. It doesn't matter if we're living in the flesh or in the spirit.