• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

From Believers to Discoverers

J

John Martin

Active Member
I would like to propose that our spiritual evolution is from believers to discoverers.
When we are born we are born without any religion.Slowly we are introduced to religion, generally to the religion our parents belong. So we become believers. The believers may grow into follower in the sense if believers take their religion seriously and commit themselves to it then we can call them followers. Believers are like ordinary citizens and the followers are like soldiers, who are ready to die for the sake of their belief system or to kill others for the sake of their belief system. Generally believers and followers believe that their religion or belief systems is absolute truth. When the believers and the followers realize the limitations of their belief system they become disciples. Disciples are those who are willing to find the truth wherever it is found. This is the field of inter-religious dialogue.This search happens in the realm of the known, revealed scriptures. There will not be any solution at this level. From a disciple emerges an explorer. An explorer is one who moves from the known into the unknown. This is a very courageous act. An explorer encounters truth first hand and comes back with the original experience of God. An explorer becomes a discoverer. This discover invites people to become explorers and have the first hand experience of truth and becomes discovers of Truth. In general people may get attached to this person and become his or her followers and the followers produce believers. After the death of the discoverer people forget the original truth and remain at the level of followers and believers. The journey stops and people remain in the same level.This is the source of division, conflict and violence in the world. So this path from a believer to a discoverer should be kept freely with clear signs, like on the high way, so that people can make their journey unhindered.
Our journey can be compared like a tortoise that lays its eggs on the beach. when the eggs are hatched the new born run towards the sea to which they are meant. This journey take them from being believers to the discoverers. But all may not reach the sea. There are predators on the way which do not allow them to go to the sea but block their journey. The predators can be believers,followers and disciples who do not go beyond their level and try to keep people in their respective levels. so we need to make this path safe so that every new born can enter into the sea. It means believers have to point the way to followers, followers have point the way to disciples, disciples have to point the way to explorers and explorers point the way to discoverers so that there is no traffic jam. All the problems come because people stop the journey and block other people's journey. Not only block the journey but the journey becomes horizontal. This is the source of divisions, conflict and violence in the world.If the journey is vertical, without stop, then there will be free traffic and the journey becomes smooth.

Any comments or reactions?
 
Last edited:
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
It describes some circumstances well, others not so much. There are some flaws in the narrative:

Serious commitment to one's religion - what you're calling a "follower" - does not require the degree of zealousness you imply. It does not require willingness to commit suicide or kill others (human or otherwise) in the name of your religion, nor does it require some narrow-minded absolute or exclusivist vision of truth. I can't say I ever went through such a stage, so there's something not quite right with this narrative.

It's also problematic to suggest that all problems are because of blockages in journeys. I've yet to see any magic bullet that describes the absolute source of all problems for everything, and this certainly isn't it. The closest I've seen is to blame some fundamental mechanisms of reality that are quite independent of human existence: diversity and change. Or to put it another way, we live in a dynamic universe that is always changing where there will inevitably be "winners" and "losers."

With a bit of refinement, this could be a decent narrative, though. Applicable to some, though not all.
 
SageTree

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
It's true, that for me as well, followers = killing/suicide was a might strongly worded.

I realize semantically you are working to lay out an idea.....
But I think those 'followers' are extremists that perhaps come from the follower branch.

Follower, at least to me, doesn't have a thinking/considering element...
but realize that this is also a semanticism....

I prefer 'practitioner' to capture a thinking/considering element.

Words, right?
 
Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
John Martin said:
I would like to propose that our spiritual evolution is from believers to discoverers.
When we are born we are born without any religion.Slowly we are introduced to religion, generally to the religion our parents belong. So we become believers. The believers may grow into follower in the sense if believers take their religion seriously and commit themselves to it then we can call them followers. Believers are like ordinary citizens and the followers are like soldiers, who are ready to die for the sake of their belief system or to kill others for the sake of their belief system. Generally believers and followers believe that their religion or belief systems is absolute truth. When the believers and the followers realize the limitations of their belief system they become disciples. Disciples are those who are willing to find the truth wherever it is found. This is the field of inter-religious dialogue.This search happens in the realm of the known, revealed scriptures. There will not be any solution at this level. From a disciple emerges an explorer. An explorer is one who moves from the known into the unknown. This is a very courageous act. An explorer encounters truth first hand and comes back with the original experience of God. An explorer becomes a discoverer. This discover invites people to become explorers and have the first hand experience of truth and becomes discovers of Truth. In general people may get attached to this person and become his or her followers and the followers produce believers. After the death of the discoverer people forget the original truth and remain at the level of followers and believers. The journey stops and people remain in the same level.This is the source of division, conflict and violence in the world. So this path from a believer to a discoverer should be kept freely with clear signs, like on the high way, so that people can make their journey unhindered.
Our journey can be compared like a tortoise that lays its eggs on the beach. when the eggs are hatched the new born run towards the sea to which they are meant. This journey take them from being believers to the discoverers. But all may not reach the sea. There are predators on the way which do not allow them to go to the sea but block their journey. The predators can be believers,followers and disciples who do not go beyond their level and try to keep people in their respective levels. so we need to make this path safe so that every new born can enter into the sea. It means believers have to point the way to followers, followers have point the way to disciples, disciples have to point the way to explorers and explorers point the way to discoverers so that there is no traffic jam. All the problems come because people stop the journey and block other people's journey. Not only block the journey but the journey becomes horizontal. This is the source of divisions, conflict and violence in the world.If the journey is vertical, without stop, then there will be free traffic and the journey becomes smooth.

Any comments or reactions?
Click to expand...

I call them dams on the Spiritual river.
 
SageTree

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
Quick thinker.... that's a sweet way to put it.

Usually me a** is involved in the comment :D
 
J

John Martin

Active Member
SageTree said:
It's true, that for me as well, followers = killing/suicide was a might strongly worded.

I realize semantically you are working to lay out an idea.....
But I think those 'followers' are extremists that perhaps come from the follower branch.

Follower, at least to me, doesn't have a thinking/considering element...
but realize that this is also a semanticism....

I prefer 'practitioner' to capture a thinking/considering element.

Words, right?
Click to expand...

Thank you for your comments. When I used the words 'willing to die' or killing others, I had in mind extreme people who are willing to become martyrs for their religion or killing others for the sake of their religion. We have seen in the past and we see to day. These words are not written on the tablets of stone but on the sand, we can change the words if they do not correspond to our experience and understanding. Thanks.
 
S

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
I do like this idea of becoming explorers and discoverers, but I don't know that the journey ends at the sea.
 
J

John Martin

Active Member
Straw Dog said:
I do like this idea of becoming explorers and discoverers, but I don't know that the journey ends at the sea.
Click to expand...
Our journey ends but the sea's journey begins( the journey of our ego or the pilgrim of our ego comes to an end and the journey or pilgrim of God begins).
 
SageTree

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
I love the Pilgrim visualization.

"The Way of a Pilgrim" is classic literature, in my opinion.
 
Union jack

Union jack

Member
John Martin said:
...An explorer encounters truth first hand and comes back with the original experience of God. An explorer becomes a discoverer. This discover invites people to become explorers...
Click to expand...

The experience of God may be so terrible that people would prefer to let the discoverer give examples to follow rather than becoming explorers themselves.
 
J

John Martin

Active Member
Union jack said:
The experience of God may be so terrible that people would prefer to let the discoverer give examples to follow rather than becoming explorers themselves.
Click to expand...

The experience of God is not necessarily terrible but it also can be joyful. Jesus said,the kingdom of God is like man who found treasure in the field.He went home sold everything and bought that field.Is this terrible? Yes,many persons are satisfied with mechanical life or they are educated to remain mechanical. There is no energy to question or even afraid of questioning establishment. Instead of becoming explores and discoverers people whether remain as disciples or followers and start worshiping the discoverers. And it may take hundreds and thousands of years before another discoverer appears and again people start worshiping him or her. Truth or God is a pilgrim. Truth hates to be settled. When human beings settle down they also build temples for God and make him settle down. Then truth becomes mechanical. Jesus said:the foxes have their holes, the birds have their nests but the son of Man has nowhere to lay down and rest'. Jesus liberated God from the temple and made him a pilgrim again.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top