Was the Epistle of James a Rebuttal to Paul?

One of Paul's greatest supporters was Martin Luther, who loved Paul so much he wanted to tear out James from the NT. Doesn't that say something?

So many historians and prominent people have accused Paul as one who contradicted Jesus, and so many books and Internet sites and modern articles have said the same.

Is there a contradiction between Paul and James?

This is explored in depth in a book entitled Jesus Words Only by Doug Del Tondo.
(Btw, this is a free online Internet book.)
Another book that explores the topic is Robbing Peter to Pay Paul by F F Powell

So what do you think?

When Paul confessed it was so hard for him not to sin, was he only referring to circumcision or dietary laws of the Torah, or was there more to his inability not to sin?
What did Paul mean by 'sin'?

If he was born a Jew (though I really doubt it), he was already circumcised, so was he just complaining that he could not abstain from forbidden but yummy foods like bacon and sausage?

How can we explain Paul's inability to abstain from sin?

Jonathan Hoffman said:

One of Paul's greatest supporters was Martin Luther, who loved Paul so much he wanted to tear out James from the NT. Doesn't that say something?

So many historians and prominent people have accused Paul as one who contradicted Jesus, and so many books and Internet sites and modern articles have said the same.

Is there a contradiction between Paul and James?

This is explored in depth in a book entitled Jesus Words Only by Doug Del Tondo.
(Btw, this is a free online Internet book.)
Another book that explores the topic is Robbing Peter to Pay Paul by F F Powell

So what do you think?

When Paul confessed it was so hard for him not to sin, was he only referring to circumcision or dietary laws of the Torah, or was there more to his inability not to sin?
What did Paul mean by 'sin'?

If he was born a Jew (though I really doubt it), he was already circumcised, so was he just complaining that he could not abstain from forbidden but yummy foods like bacon and sausage?

How can we explain Paul's inability to abstain from sin?

Click to expand...

James said that every man sins with his tongue...

James 3:7 For every species of wild beast as well as bird and creeping thing and sea creature is to be tamed and has been tamed by humankind. 8 But the tongue, not one of mankind can get it tamed. An unruly injurious thing, it is full of death-dealing poison. 9 With it we bless Jehovah, even [the] Father, and yet with it we curse men who have come into existence “in the likeness of God.”

Paul, you, me and the pope are all included with those who can't tame our tongues.

2 Peter 3:14-16

Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Peter here affirms Paul's epistles as scripture.

There is no conflict between James and Paul, but merely conflict between James and those who take Paul's words and "twist [them] to their own destruction".

Pegg said:

James said that every man sins with his tongue...

James 3:7 For every species of wild beast as well as bird and creeping thing and sea creature is to be tamed and has been tamed by humankind. 8 But the tongue, not one of mankind can get it tamed. An unruly injurious thing, it is full of death-dealing poison. 9 With it we bless Jehovah, even [the] Father, and yet with it we curse men who have come into existence “in the likeness of God.”

Paul, you, me and the pope are all included with those who can't tame our tongues.

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Oh yes we can tame our tongues!
It seems James was not aware of our ability not to sin (unless this is a Pauline interpolation since we do not have the original James MSS or their chain of custody to the extant version).

Deu 30:11-14 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off. It [is] not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither [is] it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

So many people make a practice of sinning because they have been falsely instructed by Xians that they are unable to break the habit.

Sultan Of Swing said:

2 Peter 3:14-16

Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Peter here affirms Paul's epistles as scripture.

There is no conflict between James and Paul, but merely conflict between James and those who take Paul's words and "twist [them] to their own destruction".

Click to expand...

Sorry, but Peter did not write 2 Peter. 2 Peter is largely derived from Jude and is slanted towards the Pauline position.

Excerpt from USCCB - NAB - 2peter - Introduction

Among modern scholars there is wide agreement that 2 Peter is a pseudonymous work, i.e., one written by a later author who attributed it to Peter according to a literary convention popular at the time. It gives the impression of being more remote in time from the apostolic period than 1 Peter; indeed, many think it is the latest work in the New Testament and assign it to the first or even the second quarter of the second century.
The principal reasons for this view are the following. The author refers to the apostles and "our ancestors" as belonging to a previous generation, now dead (2 Peter 3:2-4). A collection of Paul's letters exists and appears to be well known, but disputes have arisen about the interpretation of them (2 Peter 3:14-16). The passage about false teachers (2 Peter 2:1-18) contains a number of literary contacts with Jude 1:4-16, and it is generally agreed that 2 Peter depends upon Jude, not vice versa. Finally, the principal problem exercising the author is the false teaching of "scoffers" who have concluded from the delay of the parousia that the Lord is not going to return. This could scarcely have been an issue during the lifetime of Simon Peter
USCCB - NAB - 2peter - Introduction read the whole artcle

I don't understand why people think that Paul and James contradict each other. They really, really don't.

Any two people will contradict each other at some instance. Let's use our common sense, here. We should also allow Paul his honesty in declaring the encouragement of sin by the natures of mankind.

Sleeppy said:

Any two people will contradict each other at some instance. Let's use our common sense, here. We should also allow Paul his honesty in declaring the encouragement of sin by the natures of mankind.

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Yes, Paul promoted sin by declaring none of us are able to resist it. Note how he wails about his weakness and depravity In Romans 7. Many modern Xians view this as if it were candy. As long as they believe in JC, they can sin as much as they like. Ugh!

Jonathan Hoffman said:

Yes, Paul promoted sin by declaring none of us are able to resist it. Note how he wails about his weakness and depravity In Romans 7. Many modern Xians view this as if it were candy. As long as they believe in JC, they can sin as much as they like. Ugh!

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Where does he say none of us are able to resist?

Jonathan Hoffman said:

Sorry, but Peter did not write 2 Peter. 2 Peter is largely derived from Jude and is slanted towards the Pauline position.

Excerpt from USCCB - NAB - 2peter - Introduction

Among modern scholars there is wide agreement that 2 Peter is a pseudonymous work, i.e., one written by a later author who attributed it to Peter according to a literary convention popular at the time. It gives the impression of being more remote in time from the apostolic period than 1 Peter; indeed, many think it is the latest work in the New Testament and assign it to the first or even the second quarter of the second century.
The principal reasons for this view are the following. The author refers to the apostles and "our ancestors" as belonging to a previous generation, now dead (2 Peter 3:2-4). A collection of Paul's letters exists and appears to be well known, but disputes have arisen about the interpretation of them (2 Peter 3:14-16). The passage about false teachers (2 Peter 2:1-18) contains a number of literary contacts with Jude 1:4-16, and it is generally agreed that 2 Peter depends upon Jude, not vice versa. Finally, the principal problem exercising the author is the false teaching of "scoffers" who have concluded from the delay of the parousia that the Lord is not going to return. This could scarcely have been an issue during the lifetime of Simon Peter
USCCB - NAB - 2peter - Introduction read the whole artcle

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Nevertheless, James and Paul do not contradict each other.

Jonathan Hoffman said:

Yes, Paul promoted sin by declaring none of us are able to resist it. Note how he wails about his weakness and depravity In Romans 7. Many modern Xians view this as if it were candy. As long as they believe in JC, they can sin as much as they like. Ugh!

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You are misunderstanding Romans 7. It is talking about living by the Law and living by the Spirit. If you were to read on, Romans 8 tells us about living by the Spirit and not according to our flesh. It is about a state of mind, focussing on the Spirit rather than the flesh.

Romans 8:12-13 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

We must "put to death the misdeeds of the body". It is not giving us a ticket to sin but the opposite. It is about not focussing on the flesh and trying to overcome sin through our own powers but focussing on the Spirit and through the Spirit we can conquer flesh and live according to the Spirit.

Romans 8:5 - Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

Paul's teachings in no way are encouraging sin or giving a free ticket to do so.

Jonathan Hoffman said:

Yes, Paul promoted sin by declaring none of us are able to resist it. Note how he wails about his weakness and depravity In Romans 7. Many modern Xians view this as if it were candy. As long as they believe in JC, they can sin as much as they like. Ugh!

Click to expand...

Yeah, that view is utterly repugnant and hypocritical. It's based off of an unfounded idea of how salvation works, an idea that completely contradicts traditional Christianity. They say a magic prayer, Jesus waves a magic wand above them, and POOF! They're now forever saved and can do whatever they like.

Jonathan Hoffman said:

Yes, Paul promoted sin by declaring none of us are able to resist it. Note how he wails about his weakness and depravity In Romans 7. Many modern Xians view this as if it were candy. As long as they believe in JC, they can sin as much as they like. Ugh!

Click to expand...

Hmm, Romans 7 is about Paul trying to keep the law before his conversion as a pharisee and realizing he was unable to do so to perfection, and then seeing his own complacency and a need for a Redeemer. And then goes on to acknowledging in Romans 8 that this dilemma is resolved in Christ. Paul always taught that the law could not save and bring about righteousness, because even as a pharisee he was unable to keep it in his unredeemed state because of his sin nature, that was ever so present before he came to know Christ. Romans 7 is a description of an unredeemed person tring to get in right standing with God by keeping the law with out believing in Jesus. Not a Christian who cant stop living a life of depravity and habitual sin.

Jonathan Hoffman said:

Oh yes we can tame our tongues!
It seems James was not aware of our ability not to sin (unless this is a Pauline interpolation since we do not have the original James MSS or their chain of custody to the extant version).

Deu 30:11-14 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off. It [is] not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither [is] it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

So many people make a practice of sinning because they have been falsely instructed by Xians that they are unable to break the habit.

Click to expand...

if that were the case, why did Yahweh require a sacrifice system for when people sinned? What was that all about??

The sacrifice system really showed that everyone are sinners, even those who know Gods laws and were living under his protective custody were still sinners. Sacrifices were being offered daily at the temple.

Psalm 51: 5 Look! With error I was brought forth with birth pains,
And in sin my mother conceived me

Job 14:4 Who can produce someone clean out of someone unclean?
There is not one


To say we can live without sinning is like saying the clouds are there but there is no water in them.

Sleeppy said:

Where does he say none of us are able to resist?

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Isn't the main theme of Pauline Xianity the assertion that nobody is able to be perfect in following the Law?

But here is one quote among so many:

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

(And actually that is a misquote or a misleading incomplete quote of the Tanakh.)

Jonathan Hoffman said:

Isn't the main theme of Pauline Xianity the assertion that nobody is able to be perfect in following the Law?

But here is one quote among so many:

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

(And actually that is a misquote or a misleading incomplete quote of the Tanakh.)

Click to expand...

That was before. But now, and fully in the new heavens and the new earth, we are to be saints in the favor of grace- by God's perfect sign of salvation and everlasting peace, Jesus the Messiah, of God.

Pegg said:

if that were the case, why did Yahweh require a sacrifice system for when people sinned? What was that all about??

The sacrifice system really showed that everyone are sinners, even those who know Gods laws and were living under his protective custody were still sinners. Sacrifices were being offered daily at the temple.

Psalm 51: 5 Look! With error I was brought forth with birth pains,
And in sin my mother conceived me

Job 14:4 Who can produce someone clean out of someone unclean?
There is not one


To say we can live without sinning is like saying the clouds are there but there is no water in them.

Click to expand...

Sorry, it is possible not to sin.

Deu 30:11 ¶ For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off.

Deu 30:12 It [is] not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

Deu 30:13 Neither [is] it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

Deu 30:14 But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

For those who do sin, sacrifices are but an outward sign of repentance and must be accompanied by true repentance from sin if God is to respect them:

Isa 1:11 To what purpose [is] the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

Isa 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; [it is] iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them].

Isa 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Sleeppy said:

That was before. But now, and fully in the new heavens and the new earth, we are to be saints in the favor of grace- by God's perfect sign of salvation and everlasting peace, Jesus the Messiah, of God.

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If you actually believe that, fine. But Jesus was not the messiah because he did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. See jewsforjudaism.com for the full story.

And Deut 4:2 says the Torah cannot be edited.

James: Faith w/out works is useless.
Paul: Works w/out faith is useless.

Seems clear enough to me. Have both.