Come back My people

Pastek said:

What's wrong with that ?
They were also wars in the Bible, and those people were killed and some made prisoners.
Why is it ok in the Bible and not the Qu'ran ?

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[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans Mono, monospace][FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]The answer became ten pages of key subjects I collected from Come back My people. Trying to rewrite its 600 pages into a brief but complete description, is why it takes me so long to reply.[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Genesis 17.1. -I am the Almighty God; walk before me and be perfect. 7: And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your seed after you in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto you, and to your seed after you. And I will give unto you, and to thy seed after you, the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 11: And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant between me and you.11.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Abraham's seed received more than the land we're still fighting over. He wanted to be our God, and promised He would be forever. Asking in return that we shed the blood of our sons. Although the Qur'an states not to shed our own blood except in the case of warfare. Bloodshed is a reoccurring theme and was a symbol of things to come. Including the Passover lamb.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Exodus 12.5. Your lamb shall be without blemish-. -Roasted with fire-; And ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord's Passover. For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment; I am the Lord. And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses-; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you-. -Ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.13.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Leviticus 1.1-17: A burnt offering for forgiveness of sins[/FONT]
[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Leviticus 2.1-16: A grain offering of their firstfruits to give thanks[/FONT]
[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Leviticus 3.1-17: A peace offering of the herd without blemish[/FONT]
[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Leviticus 4.1-5.13: An offering for sins done in ignorance[/FONT]
[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Leviticus 5.14-6.7: A trespass offering to make restitution for the sin[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]These are only a portion of more than 600 laws in the Hebrew Bible and are required by all of Abraham's descendants.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Deuteronomy 28.58. If thou will not observe to do all the words of this law, that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and fearful name, The Lord thy God-. 64: -The Lord shall scatter you among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor thy fathers have known-.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]God did not turn to another people after we misbehaved only twice, like the Qur'an said. In Numbers 14, God said He was tempted 10 times to disinherit us and make of Moses a nation greater than us. But He honored His promise to always be our God and instead of forsaking His people, He punished them. Though He didn't scatter us by leading us elsewhere. He left us in the hands of our enemies.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Leviticus 26.17. And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you-.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]And like God said, we did serve the gods of those around us. Blending in with society to help protect us from further annihilation. Marrying and having children, and as the generations passed, our true identities were unknown even to many of us. So now, who's who? The Bible says we will know Him by His voice, so it is only He who can gather us all back to the God of our fathers.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Ezekiel 36.19. And I scattered them among the heathen nations-. But I had pity for my holy name, which the house of Israel profaned among the heathen-. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; I do not do this for your sakes-, but for mine-. 24: For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you to your own land.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]28: Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be my people, and I will be your God. 37.25: -And they shall dwell therein; even they, and their children, and their children's children, for ever-. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for ever more.26.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Obviously, the land of Israel is not able to house all who believe in the God of Abraham. But in our lifetime, He has begun to fulfill this prophecy.[/FONT]

Pastek said:

What's wrong with that ?
They were also wars in the Bible, and those people were killed and some made prisoners.
Why is it ok in the Bible and not the Qu'ran ?

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[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Part Two of Two:[/FONT][FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]
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[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]The Qur'an states that the Scriptures once rejected by Jews was now made clear. But that has not changed. The prophecies regarding the Messiah were interpreted differently then, and still are. That is, until a new generation reads verses like Isaiah 53 and decides for themselves. For the, he, is not the nation of Israel, it is the suffering Messiah. Our people Israel have not been known for being righteous servants. Whereas, the Messiah is.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Isaiah 42.6. I the Lord have called thee, in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light to the Gentiles; to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness-.7.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Psalm 2.6. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.8.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]10. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.12.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Isaiah 9.6. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Malachi 3.1. Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]New Testament[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]John 1.1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. 14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Christians do serve only One God. Not 3 like the Qur'an suggests. God is Spirit, and it was His plan since the beginning to come to earth in the form of a Man, as the perfect living sacrifice as payment for our sins, once and for all. Saving His people by giving of His own life. So that we would no longer live and die under the law. If we believe on Him. Many, many Scriptures on the subject, for another day.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]John 1.29. The next day John saw Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me comes a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.31.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]This is John the Baptist and he is the messenger who prepared the way for the Lord. Born just 3 months before Jesus.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]32. And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it stayed upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizes with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.34.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Matthew 3.16. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.17.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Matthew 5.17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.18. {not one stroke of the pen}
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[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Galatians 4.4. -When the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.7.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]2Corinthians 5.17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold,all things are become new.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Romans 3.19. Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.20.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Romans 5.12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law-).13.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Romans 6.14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Romans 7.7. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shall not covet.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Romans 8.1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.2.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]3. For what the law could not do-, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh-, condemned sin in the flesh-. 5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. [/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Galatians 5.16. -Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh-. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.18.[/FONT]


[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, monospace]Hebrews 10.4. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 11: And every priest stands daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 12.[/FONT]

Sterling Archer said:

Oh me and you have a very big misunderstanding here . I apologize for being so rude but I had no idea you were judging me from my religious affiliation. I know it is confusing but it says Rabu'baw Muslim which means Deist Muslim.

I can assure you that I am not basing my views of the NT off of Islam whatsoever. My views about the Bible are not clouded by religion.

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That's quite alright, Sterling Archer. (I am not left handed either.:ninja My own background is that I was reared as a devout fundamentalist charismatic scatter-er. I am familiar with that walk of life, too. Unfortunately it was neither Biblical nor truly fundamentalist, not that I am in favour of fundamentalism. That which it claims to be, however, it is not. It certainly shouldn't condemn Muslims for being Muslim or single them out as people to be called into fundamentalist Christianity. No, a truly fundamental & Biblical position would lead a person to let a Muslim be a Muslim; but the problem with fundamentalism is that it exalts the mind of the individual above God. Fundamentalists stop listening to reason and to other people, so even if they have the best text a fundamentalist can turn it into toilet paper without meaning to. That is what has happened many times in the past and present. I think of it this way: Scriptures are written with the finger of God, but people are made with both of his hands. Shall I pretend to revere scripture while I judge the people who are so much more important? That would be insane.

Faithglendale said:

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]Jeremiah 8.7. -But my people know not the judgment of the Lord. How do you say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.8.

9. The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the Lord; and what wisdom is in them? 11: For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

Vain: Hebrew word sheqer {sheQer}; an untruth; by implying a sham; without a cause, deceit, falsehood, feignedely, liar, lie, lying, vain (thing).[/FONT][FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif] Sham: feign/feignedely-to give a false appearance of. Primitive root of sheqer is shaqar: to cheat, be untrue, (usually in words), fail, deal falsely, lie.

Copying the law was the Scribes first duty. But because of this they were seen as experts in the Law and were given the honor of also being interpreters, teachers, and administrators of the Law of Moses. In the verse above, it is the wisdom of the Scribes that is in question.

The method they used to copy the Law required accuracy and very hard work but it did not make them wise. For they were not copying verse for verse or even word for word. But letter by letter in columns, knowing the exact count each one needed to be.

Interpreting and teaching God's word does require wisdom. But this honor was given to them by man and not by God. This verse said they rejected the word of the Lord. So the work they proceeded to do with their pens was in vain, a falsehood, a lie, and had the appearance of wisdom. They taught falsely. They taught peace when there was not going to be peace. Why? Because those who spoke the truth about Israel's sins and punishments from God, were killed.[/FONT]

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FaithGlendale, love covers a 'Multitude' of errors. All this stuff you're writing about scribes and all this worry about the Quran and Muslims... I refer you to one major scripture from Judges

• Judges 6:31 But Joash said to all who were arrayed against him, "Will you contend for Baal? Or will you defend his cause? Whoever contends for him shall be put to death by morning. If he is a god, let him contend for himself, because his altar has been pulled down."

Do not worry if someone is a Muslim missionary, or a Mormon or a JW or a Baha'i or whatever. Your faith has healed you. Go and be at peace.

• Jesus sees us as blind. He opposed anyone who claimed that they could 'See'.
  • Luke 6:39 He also told them a parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?
  • John 9:41 41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, `We see,' your guilt remains.
• In response to your references to Jeremiah 8, etc., the NT authors comment upon that verse. It is not merely about Israel's scribes but against 'Wise people' in general.
  • I Corinthians 1:19-20 For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the cleverness of the clever I will thwart." Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
  • I Corinthians 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,
  • I Timothy 1:5-6 whereas the aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith. Certain persons by swerving from these have wandered away into vain discussion, desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make assertions.

Brickjectivity said:

Jesus doesn't trust in your or my ability to read and write. Revelation 22:16 is not a literal book. Looking at verse 16, it mentions "All the plagues that are written in this book" as all happening to one person. If Revelation were, as many modernists claim, an account of events in the past present or future, then how can all the plagues be added to one person? Its because it is not a book that exists within our sense of time, the way that we experience time. Its real title is "The Apocalypse of John," because its written in a style called "Apocalyptic Style," a style that is time-independent. Read literally, no one person could have all of the plagues in it happen to them.

And yet if David calls him Lord, then how can he be David's son? Jesus said this, not me. Clearly Jesus is not literally the offspring of David, nor can a man be his own grandfather (both the root and the offspring). You see, its not a literal book.

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Brick,
Rev 22.18 doesn't say all the plagues, it only says the plagues. But even so, Exodus 9.14 states: For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon they servants, and upon thy people; that you may know that there is none like me in all the earth.

The Egyptians already experienced the bloody waters, frogs, lice, flies, death of beasts, and boils. They were about to be hit with hail. Yet God said He will send all His plagues upon the people. That would mean it is not only possible, but sure to happen. Even Pharaoh was going to feel every plague in his heart.

The Hebrew does read the Apokalupsis of John, which means disclosure, appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation. And it literally is the revelation of the past, present, and future.

Isn't it putting God in a box and refraining His hand to say some of the Bible is beyond reasonable thinking so the whole book cannot be taken literally? They only started teaching prophecy a few decades ago. There was no one to teach it because no one understood it. God said knowledge would increase in the latter days and it has. Compared to technology today, we were practically primitive beings a hundred or so years ago. It is these advancements that have brought prophecies within reach.

Now do I expect 4 headed beasts? No. Many things are symbollic, and God does not always send angels to explain them, as in Rev. For the God that created this incredible universe, He must have the wildest imagination known to man. And to understand Him, we have to use ours, and think outside the box.

In Luke 20.41, Jesus was asking the Pharisees a question to which they had no answer. How can Jesus be David's lord and David's son? There is a way but they refused to accept it. Just like all of Jesus' other teachings, and is why Jesus constantly rebuked them.

If David wasn't referring to Jesus as his lord, than who was he speaking of? Jesus literally is David's offspring. Luke 3.23-38 shows His genealogy going all the way back to Adam, through His mother.

God used two different Hebrew words for Lord in Psalm 110 and Genesis 18. Yehovah: self-existent or eternal. Adown/adon: meaning to rule; soverign, controller,(human or divine):-lord, master, owner.

Psalm 110.1, should read: My Yehovah said unto my adown.

Genesis 18.1. And Yehovah appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, and said, My Yehovah, if now I have found favour in thy sight-.3.

11. Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women. Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my adown being old also?

Abraham knew immediately that the Lord was one of the 3 men. In the flesh, otherwise he never would have greeted Him as Jehovah. David acknowledged Jesus by referring to Him with a term befitting God on earth in the form of a Man.

Pastek said:

In fact, it's like in the Qu'ran : it's better to forgive, yet, you can use the Law.

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One Scripture that should have been included with Part Two of 2.
James 2.10. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Christians are not under the law, but if we try to follow it and make one mistake, it is the same as if we broke everyone. So we can't pick and choose between them, it is either all 600, or none at all.

FaithGlendale said:

Brick,
Rev 22.18 doesn't say all the plagues, it only says the plagues. But even so, Exodus 9.14 states: For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon they servants, and upon thy people; that you may know that there is none like me in all the earth.

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Exodus 9:14 is against a nation, not an individual, but I take your point.

The Egyptians already experienced the bloody waters, frogs, lice, flies, death of beasts, and boils. They were about to be hit with hail. Yet God said He will send all His plagues upon the people. That would mean it is not only possible, but sure to happen. Even Pharaoh was going to feel every plague in his heart.

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The plagues against Israel aren't the 10 plagues of Egypt. The threats against Israel are listed in Deuteronomy 28. These are the plagues.

The Hebrew does read the Apokalupsis of John, which means disclosure, appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation. And it literally is the revelation of the past, present, and future.

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While that view has sold many books it actually has done no one any good, because Revelation is scripture and is valid every year, every day. It has been taught, as have all the prophets, since the day it was written. The fevers that people are having about it recently have happened before repeatedly in varying flavours. Nothing new has happened.

Isn't it putting God in a box and refraining His hand to say some of the Bible is beyond reasonable thinking so the whole book cannot be taken literally?

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I have not made any claims about this. The Bible teaches that we should not judge one another, and this has to do with what God teaches each person. This is why there should be no factions in communion. Muslims should be allowed to take communion. Even children who know nothing should be offered it.

They only started teaching prophecy a few decades ago. There was no one to teach it because no one understood it.

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Interpretation of Revelation is not new. Here is how I see it: Martin Luther appeared and started killing people who disagreed with him, including Jews. He trimmed the cannon and extensively commented upon it, as did Calvin and Zwingli. Then these bloody men multiplied the antichrist spirit in the church, claiming that nobody but them knew how to interpret scripture. That's when your version of interpreting Revelation was born. It was part of a divisive, murdering dynasty which produced spoiled fruit and caused huge confusion along with bloody wars. It wasn't all Luther's fault; but his 'Interpretation' was nothing less than extortion. I'm sure that you have good points to bring out of Revelation and Martin Luther may have as well, but he was a murderer and opposed the freedom that comes with Christ. The past, present and futurist interpretations which came out of that whole fiasco have served only to sever churches and families and to confuse and drive people away from the Bible.

Now do I expect 4 headed beasts? No. Many things are symbollic, and God does not always send angels to explain them, as in Rev. For the God that created this incredible universe, He must have the wildest imagination known to man. And to understand Him, we have to use ours, and think outside the box.

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Its fine if you feel you have an interpretation of Revelation, but its not fine to put down Muslims. That is putting God into a box. You can be wrong. You can be just as wrong as the soldier who nailed Jesus up, and you may never find out if you are wrong. God alone is true and every person is a liar, relatively speaking. That's why if a Muslim says they believe Jesus is a prophet, you should take them seriously and invite them to communion. There should be no "Come back my people!" You don't know if it is them or you that needs help.

In Luke 20.41, Jesus was asking the Pharisees a question to which they had no answer. How can Jesus be David's lord and David's son? There is a way but they refused to accept it. Just like all of Jesus' other teachings, and is why Jesus constantly rebuked them.

If David wasn't referring to Jesus as his lord, than who was he speaking of? Jesus literally is David's offspring. Luke 3.23-38 shows His genealogy going all the way back to Adam, through His mother.

God used two different Hebrew words for Lord in Psalm 110 and Genesis 18. Yehovah: self-existent or eternal. Adown/adon: meaning to rule; soverign, controller,(human or divine):-lord, master, owner.

Psalm 110.1, should read: My Yehovah said unto my adown.

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At the celebration of Hanuka a Torah keeping male Jew uses a different wording in prayers than some people. One uses 'Adonai' but another uses some other word; yet they pray the same prayer. This ancient tradition helps us to understand. Additionally Psalm 110:1 is similar to the opening of Revelation. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him..." in other words "My LORD said to my Lord". Then Revelation 1 says Jesus signified the message and passed it to John through angels. Now you have 4 involved. 1. God 2. Jesus 3. Angel 4. John Martin Luther isn't in the list, nor is FaithGlendale.

Technically, David is the servant of Israel and in the Scripture Israel is considered the Son. That is why the LORD speaks to his Lord, and the sentence makes sense to Jewish people. This is difficult to accept, but it is also about Jesus when you read Luke 3. Its enough to make your head spin, but this is how Christian NT writers write things. The Psalm would have a phrase like "The LORD said to my Lord" etc., and it has both an obvious Jewish meaning as well as an NT interpretation. First you have the original Jewish way and then you have Jesus way, which ways are supposed to be complementary. Some people object to this, but the Christian reasons "Ah, it is my limited mind getting in the way of understanding it," and that's how it works.

Genesis 18.1. And Yehovah appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, and said, My Yehovah, if now I have found favour in thy sight-.3.

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This amazingly fantastic anti-slavery passage here demonstrates that Abraham sees the image of God in his fellow man. The sodomites refused to see the same and were deep into the business of owning slaves. For the same reasons that Abraham bowed to these strangers, Christians should bow to one another (or some relevant equivalent but bowing seems like a very good practice).

11. Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women. Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my adown being old also?

Abraham knew immediately that the Lord was one of the 3 men. In the flesh, otherwise he never would have greeted Him as Jehovah. David acknowledged Jesus by referring to Him with a term befitting God on earth in the form of a Man.

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Abraham didn't know the men, but he had been taught from childhood "God made man in his own image." (Genesis 9:6) The Bible has a huge emphasis upon freeing slaves and upon equality. To God there is no difference between two people if they look different or have a different level of education. The Bible emphasizes the congregation of the righteous as highly important, and in that congregation the LORD is present. I am not suggesting that people are the LORD, but I am suggesting that people matter a great deal. The idea of the Son dwelling in the LORD's people is a very old one, not a new one. It was not introduced by John but was well established from the time of Abraham.

I Corinthians 14:26 What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

1 Corinthians 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

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Sterling Archer said:

Some Arabic discourse will help you maybe. But you have quoted an entire ayat wrong because you left out the ayat that comes before and after it...

77 "But do they not know that Allah knows what they conceal and what they declare?"

79 "So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."

You essentially took an ayat out of context and removed the other 2 which would invalidate your claim. Also I memorized Surat al-Baqara by memory :yes: in its original Arabic. It was hard but I knew it would pay off.

The Qur'an is stating the different types of disbelievers of the original Bible. Tose who conceal the truth, those who are ignorant of it and those who rewrite(corrupt) the truth.

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Hello Sterling,
Nothing about the verses before or after change anything. Allah claims to know what they are hiding. And then he elaborates on it. For them not to know the Scriptures, means the Hebrew Bible and the Gospels were already in the hands of believers. They could not have passed off their own book as the Holy Scriptures because it would have contradicted what had already been written.

Also, I can't say I've seen very many being sold for a small price, so Allah wasn't thinking very far into the future. The Qur'an cost me 6 so I set my price at 7, and that is besides being borrowed from Kindle for free and loaned out to others for free. And maybe it was an accident, but the Qur'an gave a capital letter to the Book they did not know, and did not give one for the book they wrote:

II.78. And there are among them illiterates who know not the Book but only lies, and they do but conjecture. Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah so that they take a small price-.

And there truly are no contradictions in the Holy Scriptures. It is incorrect interpretations that started those rumors. I came across many of these during the research and writing process. Believing that God inspired the Scriptures, and called on those who were led by His Spirit, I took an unusual approach. I maintained the mindset that there were no errors and persistence would prove it; instead of giving up and moving on.

The problem is not the Scriptures themselves, it is the nearly impossible act of converting it into other languages. English offers many definitions for the Hebrew or Greek words used which can easily lead to the misinterpretation of Scriptures. That is why God said the Hebrew language would return. Not just for Jews but for all of us who want a better understanding of His word.

If God could not preserve His message for mankind in Hebrew, Aramaic/Greek, then He would not be a god that I would ever believe in. Let alone if He sent a reminder that presented Himself as a completely different god, even though the Bible and the Qur'an both state that God does not change.

I'm afraid I need to edit my original thread and the book's description. The point is not that the Biblical stories or covenants and laws were reported differently in the Qur'an, nor is it accusing Muslims of making those changes intentionally or by accident. It is the revelation that hit me like a stone cold brick while comparing these divinely inspired books.

@ 2 Sterling

The Qur'an is stating the different types of disbelievers of the original Bible. Tose who conceal the truth, those who are ignorant of it and those who rewrite(corrupt) the truth.

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I suppose its possible to be guilty of all three. Actually if you do one you are at least partly guilty of all three. Like, if I am ignorant then of course I could lie and corrupt truth without realizing it. If I am corrupting it purposely, then to some extent I am ignorant and am obviously concealing truth through corruption. If I conceal the truth, then it is not entirely unlike corruption and also shows some ignorance on my part.

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you..

I enjoyed the fighting in this thread.

Imagine having no access to God's word until an angel revealed a Reminder, claiming to be from the God of Abraham. Without reading the first, the Qur'an was accepted as fact by Ishmael's descendants, and did not end there. Due to Israel's many sins, God said He would scatter us abroad by the hands of our enemies. Causing millions of Isaac's seed to be taught by the Qur'an as well.

In the battle of the ages, using the Bible and the Qur'an, Jehovah unravels a secret worthy of the Biblical strong delusion, falling away and gathering to Him. While introducing these oppressed believers to the God they always wanted and thought they already had. The Arab Awakening and the sudden demand for more after the first draft, are signs of God moving on this generation in a mighty way.

Come back My people, highlights the key issues common to us all, from Genesis to Revelation. Increasing the understanding of the average believer, like myself, of how Judaism leads directly to Christianity. With eye opening insights to many difficult passages and subjects. From Scriptural details easily overlooked, to hidden jewels in the Hebrew and Greek text. Proving there are no discrepancies or errors in the Bible.

A fact Allah confirmed by urging Christians and Jews to read their Book in its entirety. Accusing us of telling lies and writing our own book, but divinely inspired writings could only be forged by God. The One True God, whose followers are to preach His Book to all nations. A challenge that will be within reach, when the truth finally becomes known.

This Kindle ebook can be previewed for free, and for a limited time, can be downloaded at no charge, beginning Friday July 12. Besides inspiring a spiritual revival among Muslims, the subjects discussed will give Christians much to talk about.

faithglendale said:

Imagine having no access to God's word until an angel revealed a Reminder, claiming to be from the God of Abraham. Without reading the first, the Qur'an was accepted as fact by Ishmael's descendants, and did not end there. Due to Israel's many sins, God said He would scatter us abroad by the hands of our enemies. Causing millions of Isaac's seed to be taught by the Qur'an as well.

In the battle of the ages, using the Bible and the Qur'an, Jehovah unravels a secret worthy of the Biblical strong delusion, falling away and gathering to Him. While introducing these oppressed believers to the God they always wanted and thought they already had. The Arab Awakening and the sudden demand for more after the first draft, are signs of God moving on this generation in a mighty way.

Come back My people, highlights the key issues common to us all, from Genesis to Revelation. Increasing the understanding of the average believer, like myself, of how Judaism leads directly to Christianity. With eye opening insights to many difficult passages and subjects. From Scriptural details easily overlooked, to hidden jewels in the Hebrew and Greek text. Proving there are no discrepancies or errors in the Bible.

A fact Allah confirmed by urging Christians and Jews to read their Book in its entirety. Accusing us of telling lies and writing our own book, but divinely inspired writings could only be forged by God. The One True God, whose followers are to preach His Book to all nations. A challenge that will be within reach, when the truth finally becomes known.

This Kindle ebook can be previewed for free, and for a limited time, can be downloaded at no charge, beginning Friday July 12. Besides inspiring a spiritual revival among Muslims, the subjects discussed will give Christians much to talk about.

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This book will now be available for free download 12 AM PST Friday November 29 to 11:59 PM Saturday November 30. For those who wonder why I would only offer it for free for 2 days, it is because we are allowed 5 free days every 3 months.