Proof of Jesus's "Miracles"

skills101 · Oct 3, 2004

Hey everyone, I was interested in a few posts and had a few questions for myself. In the Bible, it is said that Jesus healed people, performed miracles, walked on water, turned water to wine, was resurrected, and so on... Is there any proof, outside the Bible, from a neutral source, that Jesus did do these things? Please attach your sources, don't throw out random facts, that won't help me much. Thanks!

skills101 · Oct 3, 2004

That probably belongs in the "Biblical Debate" section. Sorry!

linwood · Oct 3, 2004

skills101 said:
Hey everyone, I was interested in a few posts and had a few questions for myself. In the Bible, it is said that Jesus healed people, performed miracles, walked on water, turned water to wine, was resurrected, and so on... Is there any proof, outside the Bible, from a neutral source, that Jesus did do these things? Please attach your sources, don't throw out random facts, that won't help me much. Thanks!

No.

I can`t attach any sources because you can`t really "prove" a negative.

meogi · Oct 3, 2004

Off topic question:
skills, is that kevin spacey and adam corolla in your avatar? what are they doing together!?

As to the Jesus thing, I'd guess no, but there were many 'miracle' workers back in that time (Apollonius of Tyana comes to mind)... whether you can use their stories to support Jesus' or not... no idea. Because I doubt they'd be considered 'neutral' sources... each wants to exault said miracle worker.

skills101 · Oct 3, 2004

Meogi,

Actually, that's Adam Carolla and Dr. Drew Pinsky from the Loveline Radio talk show. I see you're in Japan, and the show is only syndicated in the states, so I guess you couldn't listen in. Close, though! :bonk:

DontFearMe · Oct 4, 2004

No one can ever prove Jesus ever did those things outside of using their bible. Never. That is the only source they have to attest to it.

skills101 · Oct 4, 2004

Okay, let's see if we can get a little further here...

Is there any proof of the words in the Bible from a neutral source. A friend of mine once said that the Bible is the most trusted book on on the planet, and that's just simply not true. Once again, please post your sources.

retrorich · Oct 4, 2004

It's too bad they didn't have videotape and TV in Jesus's day. Can you imagine an announcement like: "Jesus walks on water! Tape at eleven."

OfPeace · Oct 4, 2004

I believe the gospels were written a few years after Jesus's resurrection. Also, His brother had become His follower, spreading His teachings. That, and the accounts of what happened to Paul, make it reasonable to assume that the depictions of Jesus's life are, for the most part, true.

Also, there have been a lot of people who studied the subject, including proof of Jesus's existence, and wrote books on it. You might be interested in taking a look at some. I can't give your references. Sorry.

Pah · Oct 4, 2004

OfPeace said:
I believe the gospels were written a few years after Jesus's resurrection. Also, His brother had become His follower, spreading His teachings. That, and the accounts of what happened to Paul, make it reasonable to assume that the depictions of Jesus's life are, for the most part, true.

Also, there have been a lot of people who studied the subject, including proof of Jesus's existence, and wrote books on it. You might be interested in taking a look at some. I can't give your references. Sorry.

By "a few" I hope you mean 50 to 100 years following the ressurection. Even Paul was 30 years later.

-pah-

meogi · Oct 4, 2004

OfPeace said:
Also, there have been a lot of people who studied the subject, including proof of Jesus's existence, and wrote books on it. You might be interested in taking a look at some. I can't give your references. Sorry.

I'll give one: Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. Wasn't any evidence though... everything was still based off the bible. Oh, that and logical 'imperatives' such as the liar, lunatic, or lord argument. Which isn't logical. Still a good read, if you're into the whole belief thing.

Jayhawker Soule · Oct 4, 2004

skills101 said:
A friend of mine once said that the Bible is the most trusted book on on the planet, and that's just simply not true. Once again, please post your sources.

Just out of curiosity, why do you insist that others post their sources, then claim that your friend's assertion is "simply not true" but apparently see no need to suport your stance with sources of your own? Is this not a double-standard?

Speaking of standards, I find that excessively loud signatures serve only to detract from the message being communicated.

harold e. rice · Oct 4, 2004

OfPeace said:
I believe the gospels were written a few years after Jesus's resurrection. Also, His brother had become His follower, spreading His teachings. That, and the accounts of what happened to Paul, make it reasonable to assume that the depictions of Jesus's life are, for the most part, true.

Also, there have been a lot of people who studied the subject, including proof of Jesus's existence, and wrote books on it. You might be interested in taking a look at some. I can't give your references. Sorry.

The first Gospel that was written was that of Mark and it was written 44 years after the allege Jesus died. What is Ironic is the fact that Mark wasnt a disciple, never talk to, walked with or saw a man named Jesus. As a matter of fact Matthews and Luke copied their narratives from Mark, that is why the three read the same. Most Christians dont know that Revelations and most of Pauls letters were written before the four Gospels in the bible.

Jayhawker Soule · Oct 4, 2004

harold e. rice said:
The first Gospel that was written was that of Mark and it was written 44 years after the allege Jesus died.

44 years?

Not 43 or 45? How did you achieve such precise dating when most scholarship does no more than suggest a range?

harold e. rice said:
Most Christians dont know that Revelations and most of Pauls letters were written before the four Gospels in the bible.

"Most of Paul's letters"? Not all? Which of the Epistles postdate gMk in your opinion? As for the rest:

Kummel provides the following information on dating the Apocalypse of John (Introduction to the New Testament, pp. 466-8):
According to the oldest tradition [in Iren., Adv. Haer. 5.30.3] Rev was written toward the end of the reign of Domitian (81-96). The book's own testimony indicates that it originated in the province of Asia in a time of severe oppression of Christians, which is most readily conceivable under Domitian.
- see the Apocalypse of John

Perhaps it was premature to focus on what "most Christians don't know".

harold e. rice · Oct 4, 2004

[font=Trebuchet MS,arial]Horus an Egyptian God[/font] [font=Trebuchet MS,arial]Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He "stilled the sea by his power.

Raising of the dead:[/font] [font=Trebuchet MS,arial]Horus raised Osirus, his dead father, from the grave

The Gospels claims that Jesus "[/font] [font=Trebuchet MS,arial]Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He ordered the sea with a "Peace, be still" command and he also raised Lazarus from the grave.

The difference is that Horus did it first.

[/font]

harold e. rice · Oct 4, 2004

Dionysus turned water into wine before Jesus was born.

cardero · Oct 4, 2004

pah writes: By "a few" I hope you mean 50 to 100 years following the ressurection. Even Paul was 30 years later.

I agree a lot could be misinterpreted and exaggerated over 30 years.

Not to get to far off subject but even if we are to believe that these miracles did happen are we even to consider them miracles against todays technological, medical, industrial advances?

skills101 · Oct 4, 2004

Deut. 32.8 said:
Just out of curiosity, why do you insist that others post their sources, then claim that your friend's assertion is "simply not true" but apparently see no need to suport your stance with sources of your own? Is this not a double-standard?

Speaking of standards, I find that excessively loud signatures serve only to detract from the message being communicated.

As linwood said before me, you cannot really prove a negative. My proof, although there is still opinion attached to it, is that there is no proof going into it, which is my reason for this thread. I would like to see what proof there is of the Bible being the most trusted book. Just as in my belief for religion, until there is proof for it, i've yet to believe it.

As for my signature, deal with it.

I'll give one: Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. Wasn't any evidence though... everything was still based off the bible.

I'm currently reading More than a Carpenter by the same author. I agree, from what i've read, it is just based off the Bible.

Ardhanariswar · Oct 4, 2004

dude, there are TONS and TONS of people which can do what jesus did. and like others, jesus did proclaim himself to be God. and his group of followers descided to make a religion out of it, and there we go, one of the largest religions in the world is based of a man who can do tricks, that many people can do too.

sure, the gospels obviously twisted the truth in small, many ways. afterall, they are eyewitness accounts, and thier validity can be questioned.

linwood · Oct 4, 2004

Gerani1248 said:
sure, the gospels obviously twisted the truth in small, many ways. afterall, they are eyewitness accounts, and thier validity can be questioned.

Technically they are at least 3rd party heresay posited by unknown authors.

The Bible doesn`t meet the standards of admissable evidence of the US justice system.

Proof of Jesus's "Miracles"

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