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Solipsism?

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
...one cannot but become amazed at the advancement and human welfare achieved by their creators in those times and feel respect for them.
I can. In fact I'm more alarmed at the history of misery inflicted by some of these faiths than about any advancement they might have achieved.
While there may be a period of progress early in a religion's history, they seem to evolve into conservative institutions dedicated to arresting progress and preserving the status quo.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Solipsism I do not see how it can be true, because of it's bio/egocentric views. The world goes on without you, you are not all mighty and important, we die, the rest of, including the world and universe goes on without us..
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
It also must be asked how could anything have arisen, including yourself, if you are the only real certainty.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How could a whole intricate dream have arisen, if the dreamer be the only reality? How can it not continue after the dreamer wakes?
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
I can. In fact I'm more alarmed at the history of misery inflicted by some of these faiths than about any advancement they might have achieved.
While there may be a period of progress early in a religion's history, they seem to evolve into conservative institutions dedicated to arresting progress and preserving the status quo.

Early in history? Not even remotely true. It can be either way as Christianity was more constructive in its infancy and became more productive in its later years, Hinduism has had numerous ups and downs as it has been around longer and reformed more than 1,000 times perhaps, Islam is now in a state of conservative constriction and Buddhism has had a fairly good constant as far as I recall. Religions all contribute and have all been positive in some shape or form but how it is used and how it has become is a whole other issue.
Religions all have a common Devil....human fallibility.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
It's pointless whether to debate it or not; 1. it's impossible to know. 2. either way you wont change your actions. 3. if it is considered all it does is make reality depressing.

I think the world is what you make it though, but I'd personally prefer to look at the world without considering it
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
It's pointless whether to debate it or not; 1. it's impossible to know. 2. either way you wont change your actions. 3. if it is considered all it does is make reality depressing.

I think the world is what you make it though, but I'd personally prefer to look at the world without considering it
IMO, it's actually quite easy to know. The world existed for billions of years before you or I, and what real reason is there to speculate that myself, or yourself, or any singular individual is somehow the only thing that is real? Saying you yourself is truly unique and so super special and ultra important out the billions of people is one thing, to say it when he have the known universe as that is to be nothing more than utterly ignorant of the reality that you are nothing more than a grain of sand in a vast desert.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
IMO, it's actually quite easy to know. The world existed for billions of years before you or I, and what real reason is there to speculate that myself, or yourself, or any singular individual is somehow the only thing that is real? Saying you yourself is truly unique and so super special and ultra important out the billions of people is one thing, to say it when he have the known universe as that is to be nothing more than utterly ignorant of the reality that you are nothing more than a grain of sand in a vast desert.

That's not clear evidence for solipsists, because, when talking to them, they would most likely stop you at the first three words and ask for evidence :D
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
It's pointless whether to debate it or not; 1. it's impossible to know. 2. either way you wont change your actions. 3. if it is considered all it does is make reality depressing.
It's not impossible to know as long as we know stuff, and as long as there is stuff that we know. Descartes argument was that we can practice doubt to the point where we can doubt everything, but we cannot doubt that thing that is doing 'doubt'. It is untouchable by any concept that it must be used to practice. That also works for knowing, doing 'know', and that thing that is doing 'know' is untouchable by the practice of it. If one can be said to know anything--anything at all, like for instance that one's untouchable self is the only sure thing--then one can also be said to know other things just as well. There's no real difference between knowing there's an untouchable self and knowing that you are hungry or that bachelors are men.

The idea that knowledge of the world "out there" is unassailable is based off the model that has a mind separate from the world, looking at the world and getting to know it essentially from afar, from outside it. It is a mind uncovering the truth of a remotely objective world through discovery. If you don't buy into that model, solipsism goes *poof*.

I think the world is what you make it though, but I'd personally prefer to look at the world without considering it
Good! This is a much more interesting approach: a mind that engages the world rather than sits around wondering about it without realizing that it is the world sitting around wondering about itself. The mind that literally is the world--no distinction to be made that separates them at all--is the mind engaged in being.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
IMO, it's actually quite easy to know. The world existed for billions of years before you or I, and what real reason is there to speculate that myself, or yourself, or any singular individual is somehow the only thing that is real? Saying you yourself is truly unique and so super special and ultra important out the billions of people is one thing, to say it when he have the known universe as that is to be nothing more than utterly ignorant of the reality that you are nothing more than a grain of sand in a vast desert.
Solipsism doesn't claim "super uniqueness" or "super specialness" in the sense you mean, and your premise that the world existed before you or I is unsupported. I can dream a deep history as easily as I can dream a pink unicorn.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
That's not clear evidence for solipsists, because, when talking to them, they would most likely stop you at the first three words and ask for evidence :D
They can try. But things such as the distance of the stars and the time it takes their light to reach us adds much heavier evidence than mere speculation.
Solipsism doesn't claim "super uniqueness" or "super specialness" in the sense you mean, and your premise that the world existed before you or I is unsupported. I can dream a deep history as easily as I can dream a pink unicorn.
That's more my disliking of solipsism than anything. I can look at the stars, sedimentary layers, stagmatites, fossils which all suggest that the universe, this world, and other people were around before me, and really are there. To say it doesn't goes against basic and obvious observation; really the same reason why so many religious mythos do not withstand scientific scrutiny.
 
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Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
I like the idea of other people too much. As a self-confessed and unapologetic ego-maniac, it might seem natural for someone like me to gravitate towards the idea of solipsism since it would essentially default me to being the most important thing in reality. This is a very attractive prospect for someone who generally thinks this is true anyway. Unfortunately, if the rest of reality is nothing but an illusion, being important is hardly... important. Solipsism is the ultimate defeat of my ego. I need other people to exist or how cool I am doesn't matter in the slightest. And I insist that it matters. :beach:

Of course, I can't rule it out. So, if all of reality is an illusion... what of it? I can't see why this would change anything about who I am or how I act. It isn't like the illusion is suddenly melting away and I'm no longer in this pretend reality. If that is the case for other people, I'm happy for them or whatever but its not working over here. Still staring at the same universal, ever-present, all-encompassing, 'illusory' reality I expect to see. I'm going to keep playing with it like its real if that's okay with the rest of you. ;)
 

adi2d

Active Member
Solipsism I do not see how it can be true, because of it's bio/egocentric views. The world goes on without you, you are not all mighty and important, we die, the rest of, including the world and universe goes on without us..


I have no proof of that. All I know for sure is sometimes you guys go away but I'm always here













........There is no spoon........
 
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