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Ethics of the Ten Plagues of Egypt

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
supporting his actions is not the issue

the issue is that 5 million people supported the 'system' which allowed the Pharoah to call the shots.
See post #27.
By the way, what texts have you read on Egypt of that period (assuming, of course, that you can pinpoint the period)?​
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
supporting his actions is not the issue

the issue is that 5 million people supported the 'system' which allowed the Pharoah to call the shots.

Human rulership is supported by mankind. Likewise today, very person who casts a vote supports human rulership.

Here is my problem. Isn't it unlikely that all 5 million people of Egypt supported the system of Pharaoh?
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
Well, the midrashim tend to portray contact with Israelite slaves as fairly common among all Egyptians, and support for the oppression of Israel as endemic throughout Egypt. Also, the slavery of Israel was different than other ancient slavery, both because the entire people Israel were enslaved, and it was not at all usual that a whole nation faced slavery, and that they were all ill-treated and subject to capricious genocide, which was also very unusual at that time.

So my question is, what about the children who suffered in the plagues or were killed in the last one?
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
So in other words, God had nothing to do with these events?

God may have, but if so, He acted through a series of ordinary events fully explainable by science! I refer you to the programs about decoding Exodus for the details.

And if it'll help, visit me in Rockville, MD; I'll be happy to play you the DVD! :)

Bruce
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Gods got some nerve on that whole setup. Enslaving Israel and hardening the pharoahs heart just to display his glory and have followers.

Exodus 10

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them 2 that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the Lord.”
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith


God may have, but if so, He acted through a series of ordinary events fully explainable by science! I refer you to the programs about decoding Exodus for the details.

And if it'll help, visit me in Rockville, MD; I'll be happy to play you the DVD! :)

Bruce

The same thing is true for releasing a Nuclear warhead. If I press the button, this sparks a series of mechanical events that I am not controlling. Does that mean I am not responsible for the destruction caused by the warhead once it is released?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
So how did killing the first born stop a bad trend exactly?

Saw a documentary on this one.
Seems the practice at the time was to favor the first born....in everyway.

So some scientist offered the notion the plague that targeted the first born would be a bacterial infestation of the grain.
The first born gets the first serving.
The second born gets less.
So says science.

Of course, the first born inherit and are trained first.
The second...if there is one....would have a different point of view.....
having been raised under favoritism.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Saw a documentary on this one.
Seems the practice at the time was to favor the first born....in everyway.

So some scientist offered the notion the plague that targeted the first born would be a bacterial infestation of the grain.
The first born gets the first serving.
The second born gets less.
So says science.

Of course, the first born inherit and are trained first.
The second...if there is one....would have a different point of view.....
having been raised under favoritism.

The truthful religion does not give any privileges to the first born.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I don't believe in community responsibility. One big reason for this is that no community will ever have complete consensus over anything. Because of this, it is unjust to punish the people who are disagreeing with the enslavement of the Israelites.

I believe the Bible teaches God will hold us responsible for sins committed by groups we choose to be part of. Thus, God's people are warned to "get out of" an entity called Babylon the Great in Revelation 18:4, "if you do not want to share with her in her sins." Those Egyptians who felt the enslavement of the Israelites was unjust could have joined themselves to them, as Moses did, who refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter. (Hebrews 11:24) They certainly became eyewitnesses to God's protection of the Israelites, and his anger over their oppression by Egypt.
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
I believe the Bible teaches God will hold us responsible for sins committed by groups we choose to be part of.

Groups do not commit sins, people do.

Thus, God's people are warned to "get out of" an entity called Babylon the Great in Revelation 18:4, "if you do not want to share with her in her sins." Those Egyptians who felt the enslavement of the Israelites was unjust could have joined themselves to them, as Moses did, who refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter. (Hebrews 11:24) They certainly became eyewitnesses to God's protection of the Israelites, and his anger over their oppression by Egypt.

Most Egyptians were not involved in politics and were more concerned with tending to their farms and trying to support their families. Being in the same country as a bad leader doesn't make you responsible for his crimes or even a supporter of his crimes. My question to you is, should all the Germans in Nazi Germany be punished for genocide because Hitler did this crime?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Groups do not commit sins, people do.

Most Egyptians were not involved in politics and were more concerned with tending to their farms and trying to support their families. Being in the same country as a bad leader doesn't make you responsible for his crimes or even a supporter of his crimes. My question to you is, should all the Germans in Nazi Germany be punished for genocide because Hitler did this crime?

the bible shows that a person who chooses
to do nothing is actually doing something by doing nothing.

If a person failed to help someone in need, they would be held responsible by God for failing to help the person in need. So we could say that every Egyptian who knew of the hebrews enslavement and did nothing, were supporting the pharaohs decision to hold an entire nation (including their children) as slaves, were all responsible. Community responsibility does exist in Gods view and thats why we should take it seriously.

And yes, all Germans were punished for the actions of the Nazi party, their cities were destroyed in the war...all Germans were responsible just as all Japanese people punished when nuclear bombs were dropped on them for the actions of their leaders....and all Palestinians are being punished through 'sanctions', for the actions of a few of their leaders too.
 
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Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
Levite said:
If it makes any difference, the Rabbis teach us in numerous midrashim that it was the entire populace of Egypt that was guilty, in that they all willingly participated in the oppression and abuse of the Israelites. There are also midrashim that talk about those Egyptians who sympathized with the Israelites, and rebelled against their own leaders and countryfolk to aid the Israelites because they knew it to be right; we are taught that God counted them amongst the Israelites during the plagues, and they were spared, too.

Do you believe that the Bible stories about the Ten Plagues, and the Exodus, are true? How about a global flood, or a localized flood?
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Do you believe that the Bible stories about the Ten Plagues, and the Exodus, are true? How about a global flood, or a localized flood?

There have been many differing opinions among Jewish authorities about the degree of literal historicity of the various stories in Genesis and Exodus, with opinions ranging from entirely literally factual to almost entirely metaphorical.

I personally think the stories in Genesis are entirely metaphorical. I think the stories in Exodus are probably highly embellished, composited, and poeticized narratives built out of grains of historical truth.
 
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