Poll: Heaven and You

retrorich said:

A find it unbelievable that:

God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, yet allows terrible things to happen (e.g., 9/11, the Russian School Massacre, babies being born with horrible deformities and diseases).

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Hello all and God Bless.

Retrorich, to add to simguy83's response, God is love. God did not create us to be robots. He will not force anyone to love Him, and since all individuals have the free choice to accept Him or not, most of the terrible evils that come about are due to individuals choosing to do so. God does not force individuals to murder, individuals choose to murder; God does not force individuals to run a plane into the World Trade Center, individuals choose to; God does not force anyone to accept Jesus Christ as the Savior for forgiveness of sins, individuals choose; etc.

In addition, ever since God created the world He desired that all individuals not die, be sick, etc; however, due to individuals choosing to not trust God's perfect judgement individuals sinned by rebelling against God. The end result has been death, etc.

For all these reasons God chose to send His Son, Jesus Christ to come and die on the cross for those sins. In this we find the greatest question: Why would God die for us? He loves every individual, even if they do not believe He loves them, but He is Holy, as simguy83 mentioned, and cannot be part with sin.

I hope this is of help. What do you think Retrorich?

God Bless

Romans 10:9-10

Hello Oneway,

It seems you have great love for God and I pray that you are truly blessed. However, I must advise against using Pascal's wager in an attempt to bring none-believers to salvation. The problem with it is that it only address two absolutes when in reality, (from an athiest's point of view) Christianity could be an incorrect teaching. For example, Muslims believe that we are all damned yet the wager does not include that proviso.

I believe a good way to bring people to Christ is to use God's law. Go through the commandments with them until they understand and admit that they are a sinner. In my experience, they are then more likely to accept the fact that if God exists they will need a mediator for their sins thus making Christianity the more sensible option.

Of course, these are only my views and that doesn't necessarily mean that they are correct, you are very welcome to disagree.

God bless,

Simon

If I died today, my brain would no longer function. If my brain no longer functioned, I would no longer be able to see, touch, taste, hear, or smell things. I would no longer be able to feel emotions or imagine things, and I wouldn't be able to think. Basically, being dead, i.m.h.o., would feel exactly the same as being unconscious....so no, I don't think I would go to heaven.

Hello all and God Bless.

I just want to ask, Do you think it is important if you go to Heaven? Why or Why not?

God Bless

Romans 10:9-10

If I died today, I wouldn't want to go to heaven. I wouldn't want to go to hell. Both heaven and hell sound boring with the only difference between them being that one is more painful than the other. I like this world. It's beautiful. It's got everything I want. It's got everyone I love. True, it has its tragedies. But at least its tragedies are not eternal. If I died today, I would want to be reincarnated.

perhaps you create your own heaven.

have you read The Lovely Bones? its kinda cool, its physical perception of heaven like earth instead of a spiritual realm.

Hello all and God bless.

The problem with perception is that it may not be related to reality. For example, if one day I was to say that I believe I am the best Baseball player in the world and I play for Major League Baseball, making more than a million dollars a year, live in a mansion, and I believe I can fly. The problem with the idea that perception creates reality, is often it is not reality. Perception must not be the determiner of was is true or whether one is going to Heaven.

If one is going to Heaven it must be based on whether one is in reality going to Heaven, and not whether one thinks they're going to Heaven.

The only way to Heaven is the oneway, through Jesus Christ.

Perceptions come and go, but reality and truth are constant, if one believes or no one believes, it is true.

God Bless and I love you all.

ONEWAY said:

If one is going to Heaven it must be based on whether one is in reality going to Heaven, and not whether one thinks they're going to Heaven.

The only way to Heaven is the oneway, through Jesus Christ.

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Since I don't subscribe to the Christian notion of Heaven, nor to Christian concepts of Christ, this becomes a circular non-argument. I do not intend this to offend, only to state the position.

ONEWAY said:

Perceptions come and go, but reality and truth are constant, if one believes or no one believes, it is true.

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I can't argue with this statement on its face; I simply disagree that Christian concepts of Heaven and Hell are truth and reality. Since we have no *objective* proof either way, these concepts become a matter of opinion and belief. Again, no intent to offend, just a statement of position.

i agree with engyo.

"For example, Muslims believe that we are all damned yet the wager does not include that proviso."

Muslims don't believe that you are damned.

Personally, i prefer the idea of reincarnation. The Christian view of heaven seems shallow and boring. I don't want to just live in "paradise," i want to see the universe. If there is a heaven, i imagine its pretty flexible ( i really like the portrail of heaven in What Dreams May Come).

If one is going to Heaven it must be based on whether one is in reality going to Heaven, and not whether one thinks they're going to Heaven.

The only way to Heaven is the oneway, through Jesus Christ.

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Isn't the Christian basis of who goes to heaven and who doesn't really just someone elses thoughts, too?
You say that someone who believes they're going to heaven (for whatever reason) isn't nessicarily going, but aren't your ideas of why you are going to heaven just specualation also. How would you know that the reason they think their going to heaven isn't correct and yours is wrong?
And don't tell me because the bible tells you so, because the bible's ideas are just the same speculations written along time ago. It wasn't written by God, it was written by men, who all to often have shown their tendencies towards error and ignorance. "But they were divinely inspired" you say? well, how would you know, for that too, is just a speculation.

However, I must advise against using Pascal's wager in an attempt to bring none-believers to salvation.

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Thank you, I`m really tired of pointing out Pascals faulty logic.

I won`t be going to heaven.

The Christian heaven would be anything BUT heaven for me.

According to the Christian Bible only 144,000 go to heaven and they are from the original twelve tribes of Israel (Jacob). The account is listed in Revelation 7:4-8. Those persons are dead already awaiting transformation to spirits.

Well, at the moment.....................no. I'm trying to change that, but it'll take time.

"For example, Muslims believe that we are all damned yet the wager does not include that proviso."

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Who said that?

Being that I don't believe in heaven, well, I can't answer that poll can I?

That scares the crap out of me, I have never felt that I would make it to Heaven, and I can't stop doing the things that I think would keep me from it.

OneWay I want to make an observation to you if I may. Heaven is eternal bliss right? God wants his children to have eternal bliss in Christianty right? Than why would he haul them on a planet that while pleasant is not eternal bliss and make them take a test to decide if they get to go to eternal bliss after life on earth? What is the point of this academic exercise?

Heaven does not exist for that reason amoung others. It makes no sense for a God who is not impartial to create "children" dump them in a test tube (earth) and see which ones qualify to live in eternal bliss (where there is not bad things making evil impossible?). The reasoning has no rational to it.

Second, where is heaven. Geographically? How can one have assurance of a place existance that has yet to be uncovred by man? That would be like me proposing to you that there are actually two moons revolving around earth but we have only found one.

Nobody has ever come back from there with a record of it. If Heaven existed it would be the only place where one could go to and not leave. No other place exist that has a permenant one way door. Doesn't that seem kinda inconsistant to have one place in the universe that can be visited but not left where evey place else can be visited and left?

Maybe it is a chicken before the egg senerio...usually if I debate the existance of Heavn with someone they say "well we have to go somewhere when we die don't we?" I have no idea if we do or don't but unless that question is qualifed at least it is hard to move on to a place that has never been discovered, had return vistors and is genereated on theory as the home of humanity (and other living things?) when it seems obvious that earth is already a home for us.

robtex, if you believed that Allah was All-Powerful, you'd believe he could create something not perceptible by you. You cannot see it, touch it feel it, etc. Also, people in Heaven cannot return to Earth. And why would anyone want to?

Well, would it be fair to have people cursing and commiting adultery and such in Heaven? I don't thinks so. Simply be good in this life, follow Allah's Commands, and you will be guranteed Paradise.

Earth is going to be destroyed and made into a new Earth. Not going to go into detail, but at the end of the world, there will be many earthquakes, hurricanes, and other disasters.