Eastern religions in the west

I must agree with Vinayaka on this matter. While the Bahai Faith goes a long way towards showing respect and acknowledgement of Zoroastrism, Buddhism and Hinduism, I personally have seen little in the way of evidence that it understands Buddhism or Hinduism, or even the concept of Dharma.

It is, simply, an Abrahamic faith.

LuisDantas said:

It is, simply, an Abrahamic faith.

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Well that is the issue for most. Many classify Baha'i as Abrahamic and some classify it as pagan/folk religion. Considering Baha'is acknowledgement of other faiths and its liberal world view many place it outside of the Abrahamic loop. Many have claimed that the Baha'i Faith is syncretic and blends varying religious knowledges together.
I myself have always viewed Baha'ism as an extension to the cultural past of Persia in light of religions as Zoroastrianism.

BruceDLimber said:

Save that you totally ignore the fact that it explicitly recognizes Hinduism and Buddhism (as well as the Zoroastrian) Faiths as legitimate members of the ongoing sequence of revealed religions!

Granted, it might be better described as "universal" given how widespread it's become already: indeed, the Britannica lists its scope (in terms of how many places worldwide its adherents live) as second only to Christianity.

(BTW, "dharma" simply isn't part of our vocabulary, though we doubtless express equivalent things in our own terminology.)

Peace,

Bruce

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I know many Baha'is, and have read most of the Baha'i Writings.

In terms of religious lining, the Baha'i Faith (two words, one noun! XD) is Abrahamic in its entire core. Things like Progressive Revelation, Prophets and Messengers, the Oneness of God in a very Abrahamic monotheistic sense, etc. makes it Abrahamic, and certainly not Dharmic.

The ONLY reason that it will 'dharmicise' itself towards Buddhism and Islam, besides unofficially recognising Krishna and Buddha as Prophets of God, is basically for preaching purposes mainly. Claiming that Baha'u'llah (the Prophet-Founder of the Baha'i Faith) is the Maitreya or Kalki Avatara is not the same as being a Dharmic religion.

The core doctrine is that Baha'u'llah is the Messenger for this Age (which is like the Ahmadiyyas, except that Ahmadis are Muslim, and the Baha'i Faith considers itself a separate religion), and Dharmic religions do not have the concept of progressive revelation or even of prophethood.

BruceDLimber said:

Save that you totally ignore the fact that it explicitly recognizes Hinduism and Buddhism (as well as the Zoroastrian) Faiths as legitimate members of the ongoing sequence of revealed religions!

Granted, it might be better described as "universal" given how widespread it's become already: indeed, the Britannica lists its scope (in terms of how many places worldwide its adherents live) as second only to Christianity.

(BTW, "dharma" simply isn't part of our vocabulary, though we doubtless express equivalent things in our own terminology.)

Peace,

Bruce

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I have to agree with Vinayaka, LuisDantas, and Gaura Priya. Bahai, while recognizing the 'validity' of Dharmic religions, does not understand them at all, and does not incorporate any eastern idea into it's practice and belief. All the beliefs and practices of Bahai are rooted firmly in the Abrahamic tradition. Simply stating that it's a universal religion, or syncretic, or anything like that, does not necessarily mean that's true. I've studied Bahai, like I have most religions, and have not seen anything eastern in it's teachings.

I'm also a universalist. I recognize the validity of all religions. But I don't incorporate any Abrahamic practices or ideas into my belief. I'm firmly rooted in the Buddhadharma. So I don't make the claim that my belief system is both eastern and western, a combination of both Dharmic and Abrahamic systems. But this is what you're saying Bahai does. It's one thing to accept the validity of another religion, it's something else entirely to claim to be part of that tradition, or incorporate that tradition into yours, with understanding of that particular tradition.

Gaura Priya said:

The ONLY reason that it will 'dharmicise' itself towards Buddhism and Islam,

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I take it you meant "Buddhism and Hinduism"?

LuisDantas said:

I take it you meant "Buddhism and Hinduism"?

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Yeah, that's what I meant!

Methinks I need more coffee!


That said, I might relook into the Baha'i Long Obligatory Prayer. I do miss it, and maybe I could try it out again. It's a very beautiful prayer, and I highly recommend any Abrahamic to just try it out!

LegionOnomaMoi said:

The answer was "No, I grew critical of it because of casteism ... Actually, you should not ask people if they are Hindu. This does not mean much. If you ask them what their religion is, they will say, ‘I belong to this caste.’"

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I have spent a fair amount of time in India. I have never had somebody respond to a religion question with a caste response.

Wannabe Yogi said:

I have spent a fair amount of time in India. I have never had somebody respond to a religion question with a caste response.

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This took place something like 30 years ago, and the question was asked of someone who was much older than 30, so it could be that.

Penumbra said:

It seems to me that some principles of eastern religions have appeal in the west, but not necessarily the whole cultural aspect.

Religion is often intertwined with culture, as a subset of culture. If religion is extracted from culture to attempt to be isolated and transported to a different culture, then it can be tricky to see where that separation ends. Art, language, family structure, level of development, knowledge of other cultures; these things can all be intertwined with religion.

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Indeed. In my (unincorporated) neighborhood, we have about 15% Asian population. The Eastern religion meeting places around here certainly seem to be highly associated with different countries. There are quite a few Korean Christian churches around here, as well as a Sikh Gurdwara, A Vietnamese Buddhist temple, and a good sized Hindu Temple all within a few miles from my house, and they all are quite busy, even to the point that the police show up to direct traffic at the Buddhist temple when they have their meetings.

A few years ago, my ex stopped by the Buddhist temple to check it out. They welcomed him, but seemed a bit leary of a westerner. (They just happened to be trying to repair their plumbing, and the way they were repairing it would have poisoned their water supply if my ex hadn't shown up and pointed it out. They warmed up a bit to him after that, but my ex never did go back there.)

So a lot of western people sitting around a temple statue with eastern physical features and based on eastern art- that setting just doesn't appeal to everyone. It feels to some as though they're part of something foreign, or something distant. Worshiping a foreign culture. The Abrahamic religions are originally foreign to North America or Europe as well, but Christianity has been intertwined with western culture ever since it got picked up in the Roman Empire, so it's sufficiently absorbed to the point of feeling to many as though it's a core aspect of their culture (like how Jesus is often a white guy with long fine brown hair in art for some reason).

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This cultural tension might go both ways. I know the Vietnamese and the Cambodians around here don't always get along--they bring their cultural baggage along with them. Old habits can be hard to break.

It seems to me that "filtered" aspects of eastern religions are popular. For example, American Transcendentalism was based on numerous things from a few cultures, which included the Upanishads. But it doesn't have a foreign feel to it; the earliest essays were written by Americans. New Age beliefs often incorporate elements of western and eastern religion, like reincarnation. Buddhism is often practiced but from what I've observed it's often a sort of minimalist form with fewer cultural ties to east Asian countries in art or setting.

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This might be the only way for it to succeed, given the cultural strife between the different Eastern nations.

To continue that point, I also think variants of agnosticism and syncretism appear to be on the rise in developed areas, maybe due to increases in exposure to multiple cultures. Rather than looking to a local or foreign culture and saying "this is the specific belief system I accept as true rather than the others", people seem more likely to simply get inspired by a few concepts from different areas.

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It might also be a subconscious attempt to separate out the cultural strife from the beneficial philosophy and practices.

Gaura Priya said:

The Baha'i Faith ... unofficially [recognizes] Krishna and Buddha as Prophets of God. . . .

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Much as I hate to disappoint you, this is eminently official.

Peace,

Bruce

Sterling Archer said:

Many have claimed that the Baha'i Faith is syncretic and blends varying religious knowledges together.

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Which simply ignores the fact that it is very much an independant religion having its own scriptures (fully 200 volumes of them!), as well as its own teachings, laws, and administrative procedures unlike those in any other religion.

It is thus very much a distinct religion, something even Islamic courts have recognized.

Peace,

Bruce

I think eastern concepts have already infiltrated the west. Karma, reincarnation, etc. are way more mainstream than they were even since I was a youth. So I have no doubt it's already happened and I believe the trend will continue.

I agree with those who say that the west advanced farther materially and the east farther spiritually. So now we learn from each other on this shrunken planet.

To kind of agree with other contributors here, I think it is the intellectual cream churned from eastern thought that will be received in the west; not the rituals and the gods that westerners can't pronounce. Those things are more cultural and less universal.

George-ananda said:

To kind of agree with other contributors here, I think it is the intellectual cream churned from eastern thought that will be received in the west; not the rituals and the gods that westerners can't pronounce. Those things are more cultural and less universal.

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In my opinion, that would be sad indeed. The best of the east is non-intellectual, and experiential. But yes I do see the tendency you are alluding to. It's like suggesting to someone that in order to get closer to God, they learn how to breath and go for a walk in nature, and then them wanting to discuss the whys and wherefores of doing that, instead of just doing it.

Or ... Once you learn a little bit of meditation, you stop meditating just so you can tell everyone all about it. I've med a few too many new-agey types who want to tell me all about my faith, without really having any clue. But its all good. Part of Siva's dance.

BruceDLimber said:

Which simply ignores the fact that it is very much an independant religion having its own scriptures (fully 200 volumes of them!), as well as its own teachings, laws, and administrative procedures unlike those in any other religion.

It is thus very much a distinct religion, something even Islamic courts have recognized.

Peace,

Bruce

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I actually went to the Baha'i website and examined it a few days ago. I have long since been aware of its independent scripture. I know it is not syncretic directly but all religions take from another because they are born in an era. The Baha'i faith has existed in a time of Zoroastrianism and Islam so I expect that to be addressed by the faith. Anything else would make the religion appear ignorant and Baha'is are far from it since they have addressed almost every religion known to mankind. No religion on earth can perform such a feat, and not even Hinduism can despite its universal appeal.
Also I never claimed that your religion is copying anything. I mentioned that is what other believes. But regardless of this I do know that it confirmed the knowledge set forth by a multitude of religions and practices by utilizing inclusive monotheism in its purest form which by itself is original and has only been though of by Westerner's until a few decades.