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John 17: Jesus praying and asking for things

idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
In John 17 Jesus prays for a few things. The verses even sound like he is pleading with god, reminding god that he is following everything being asked. Are these things that Jesus knew would happen or something that Jesus would like to happen?

He asks for the glory he had before the world began and prays for the apostles and other followers.

5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

11....Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

20.... I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

​
 
Y

Youtellme

Active Member
It's for things he would like to happen. I'm going to write a lenghty thread about John 17 as proof that the Trinity is teaching is false.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
idav said:
In John 17 Jesus prays for a few things. The verses even sound like he is pleading with god, reminding god that he is following everything being asked. Are these things that Jesus knew would happen or something that Jesus would like to happen?

He asks for the glory he had before the world began and prays for the apostles and other followers.
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

11....Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

20.... I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

​
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I believe it is something that He already knows won't happen. This prayer is for the benefit of the hearers so they may know the will of God.
 
Shiranui117

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
idav said:
In John 17 Jesus prays for a few things. The verses even sound like he is pleading with god, reminding god that he is following everything being asked. Are these things that Jesus knew would happen or something that Jesus would like to happen?

He asks for the glory he had before the world began and prays for the apostles and other followers.
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

11....Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

20.... I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

​
Click to expand...

I think it's both things that Jesus knows WILL happen and things that He would LIKE to happen. Certainly God wants all of these things too, no?
 
Avoice

Avoice

Active Member
idav said:
In John 17 Jesus prays for a few things. The verses even sound like he is pleading with god, reminding god that he is following everything being asked. Are these things that Jesus knew would happen or something that Jesus would like to happen?

He asks for the glory he had before the world began and prays for the apostles and other followers.

5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

11....Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

20.... I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

​
Click to expand...


In vs 5 he is asking for the glory he had as a spirit creature in God's presence before his birth as a human. He knows he must do the Father's will through out his life to get such glory back.

KJV said:
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
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What version of the Bible are you using that says "...the name you gave me..." instead of "...those whom thou has given me..."?

Jesus is asking God's spirit be with those whom God has given Jesus that they might be in agreement about Jesus and Jehovah and what they teach us. The intensity of agreement He hopes for among those who actually seek the truth of what He and His Father teach is stronger than "yes, murder is wrong" sort of agreement but more like "Killing people is wrong all the time, because Jesus said so" type of unity of purpose, yet weaker than that they all think the exact same thoughts.
 
J

Jonathan Hoffman

Active Member
idav said:
In John 17 Jesus prays for a few things. The verses even sound like he is pleading with god, reminding god that he is following everything being asked. Are these things that Jesus knew would happen or something that Jesus would like to happen?

He asks for the glory he had before the world began and prays for the apostles and other followers.
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

11....Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

20.... I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

​
Click to expand...

It shows that Jesus and the Father are not One and the same.
 
H

HeatherHeart

Member
Xchristian said:
He doesn't really know, he can guess, and make mistakes ... just like you.
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:confused:Jesus doesn't need a "proud agnostic" to missrepresent him. For your information, he died for OUR sins, not HIS. In him is no sin, for he is perfect. You, unfortunately are just another person nailing Him to the cross AGAIN.:facepalm:
 
H

HeatherHeart

Member
HeatherHeart said:
:confused:Jesus doesn't need a "proud agnostic" to missrepresent him. For your information, he died for OUR sins, not HIS. In him is no sin, for he is perfect. You, unfortunately are just another person nailing Him to the cross AGAIN.:facepalm:
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(P.S.) He is fully God (and fully human when on the Earth). Why can't he pray, just like us, even though he knows all the answers? He is simply facing the same trials and temptations that us sinful humans face. He knows what he is doing, and it makes sense you can't fathom it.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
idav said:
Are these things that Jesus knew would happen or something that Jesus would like to happen?
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These are things that did happen in the past, but then everything fell apart.
  • James 5:8 "You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near."
  • John 13:31...34 "When he was gone, Jesus said, "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
The peace and then chaos that followed was anticipated, if we go by Paul's writings; and there are hints of it in things that Jesus says if one takes it as 'Foreshadowing'.
  • Matthew 26:31 Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'
  • Mark 14:29 Peter declared, "Even if all fall away, I will not."
Even Peter 'Fell away'. So I think Jesus fully expected some kind of failure in his followers. We tend to assume that he had no precognition about the events we call history, but I think he knew a failure would happen before his disciples re-united someday. Keep in mind all those NT comments that foreshadow a huge loss of faithfulness to Jesus message, and it was expected to follow soon or even immediately.


  • (Luke 7:23) "Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me."
  • (2 Peter 3:3-4) First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."
  • (James 5:3) Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days.
  • (II Timothy 3:1) But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
  • (Hebrews 1:2) but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son,...
  • (II Timothy 4:3) For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
We know what the itching ears from the last point are. Think about what people don't want to hear. They don't want to hear "Love other people, because it is a tree of life." Instead they want to hear "Follow me, because I know the way. I can explain everything to you. Eat of this other fruit, and you will be as gods." So, to me it appears Jesus anticipated a huge chaotic loss of his gospel followed by a renewal of it. Perhaps all of the division we see today will finally cause something to click.
 
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J

Jonathan Hoffman

Active Member
idav said:
In John 17 Jesus prays for a few things. The verses even sound like he is pleading with god, reminding god that he is following everything being asked. Are these things that Jesus knew would happen or something that Jesus would like to happen?

He asks for the glory he had before the world began and prays for the apostles and other followers.
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

11....Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

20.... I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

​
Click to expand...


Jonathan Hoffman said:
It shows that Jesus and the Father are not One and the same.
Click to expand...
IMO, the original Jesus in the first edition of this gospel, did not mention "the glory I had with you before the world began". . . . because the original Jesus was a mere human. References to himself as a pre-existent spirit are interpolations by a Paulinist.
 
kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Youtellme said:
It's for things he would like to happen. I'm going to write a lenghty thread about John 17 as proof that the Trinity is teaching is false.
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Its hard to believe that anyone in todays world actually still believe the lie about a trinity god. Even in the creators( catholicism) of the trinity god encyclopedia it clearly says that the teaching of a trinity god did not exist before the end of the 4th century.
Its also 100% undeniable fact--- that every israelite while serving the true God, served a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah) that included--Abraham,Moses,Job,Isaiah,etc. Jesus as well-John 20:17,,rev 3:12

Now we all must choose our own path in this life---- we can serve a god created by men in the 4th century--or we can serve the God of Moses,Abraham,etc--- its a simple choice.
 
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