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Note taking before Pilot

Silver

Just maybe
When Jesus went before Pontias Pilot, who recorded the conversation between the two?

(This was when Jesus claimed not to be a King of this world, but nevertheless a king.)

How did the conversation between Jesus and Pilot get into the New Testament?

Surely there was no followers of Jesus present? So who told the story at a later date?
 
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thau

Well-Known Member
When Jesus went before Pontias Pilot, who recorded the conversation between the two?

(This was when Jesus claimed not to be a King of this world, but nevertheless a king.)

How did the conversation between Jesus and Pilot get into the New Testament?

Surely there was no followers of Jesus present? So who told the story at a later date?

The same guy who told Moses how to write up the accounts in Genesis --- G-d.

Are you still looking for reasons not to believe, or is that totally covered?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Romans were record keepers.
That trial record is likely lost by now.

And the conversation between Pilate and Jesus was not likely private anyway.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
When Jesus went before Pontias Pilot, who recorded the conversation between the two?

(This was when Jesus claimed not to be a King of this world, but nevertheless a king.)

How did the conversation between Jesus and Pilot get into the New Testament?

Surely there was no followers of Jesus present? So who told the story at a later date?


Most scholars claim it is fictional. Pilate was a brutal killer with no remorse and had a hatred for Galileans. No where in history has a man like him ever given a choice between prisoners to be set free.

Pontius Pilate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Pilate's reluctance to execute Jesus in the gospels has been seen as reflecting the authors' agenda.[24][25] It has thus been argued that gospel accounts place the blame on the Jews, not on Rome, in line with the authors' alleged goal of making peace with the Roman Empire and vilifying the Jews.[24][25]


There is no debate about this.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
When Jesus went before Pontias Pilot, who recorded the conversation between the two?

(This was when Jesus claimed not to be a King of this world, but nevertheless a king.)

How did the conversation between Jesus and Pilot get into the New Testament?

Well, assuming that the conversation took place I guess we could chalk it up to word of mouth.

Surely there was no followers of Jesus present?

It isn't impossible. As the prefect of Judea Pilate probably would have had a sizable court and an extensive administration. Considering the number of people involved in all of that it isn't unreasonable to suggest that someone in his administration could have been a follower, or could have become one later. According to some traditions Pilate's wife was actually a Christian.

wiki said:
Origen's 2nd century Homilies on Matthew suggest that she became a Christian,[2][3] or at least that God sent her the dream mentioned by Matthew so that she would become one.[4][5] This interpretation was shared by several theologians of Antiquity and the Middle Ages. Rival theologians contended the dream was sent by Satan in an attempt to thwart the salvation that was going to result from Christ's death.[4][5]
Pontius Pilate's wife is mentioned in the apocryphal Acts of Pilate (Gospel of Nicodemus, probably written around the middle of the 4th century),[6] which gives a more elaborate version of the episode of the dream than Matthew.[7][8] The name Procula derives from translated versions of that text. The chronicle of Pseudo-Dexter (1619) is the first place known where she is referred to as Claudia.[5]
Pontius Pilate's wife - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So who told the story at a later date?

the Gospel writers, obviously. Where they heard it from is anybodies guess.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
The Romans were prolific and notorious, if not obsessive with their writings, as were the Greeks. Virtually nothing was done without a scribe being present.
 

thau

Well-Known Member
Romans were record keepers.
That trial record is likely lost by now.

And the conversation between Pilate and Jesus was not likely private anyway.


Anyone could cite several passages in the gospels where what Jesus said was not witnessed by anyone to have recorded it --- such as when he was alone in garden of gethsemane praying before his arrest and his three favored apostles were sleeping.

If our God is real, then His assisting in what gets recorded properly in Scripture is a small task to be sure.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Anyone could cite several passages in the gospels where what Jesus said was not witnessed by anyone to have recorded it --- such as when he was alone in garden of gethsemane praying before his arrest and his three favored apostles were sleeping.

If our God is real, then His assisting in what gets recorded properly in Scripture is a small task to be sure.

Pilate...as a roman officer was not reqired to keep record?

And I really doubt the Carpenter's trial was private.
Speech was likely restricted to the two participants.
One on One.
 

Musty

Active Member
When Jesus went before Pontias Pilot, who recorded the conversation between the two?

(This was when Jesus claimed not to be a King of this world, but nevertheless a king.)

How did the conversation between Jesus and Pilot get into the New Testament?

Surely there was no followers of Jesus present? So who told the story at a later date?

It's called making stuff up
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Anyone could cite several passages in the gospels where what Jesus said was not witnessed by anyone to have recorded it --- such as when he was alone in garden of gethsemane praying before his arrest and his three favored apostles were sleeping.

This is where doubt that an event took place arises; that an event was added to blow out the story into more than it was.

Now, if one wants to invoke the divine, it could be said that the events the writers of the respective gospels didn't actually witness, were transcendentally or divinely related to them at a later time.
 

thau

Well-Known Member
This is where doubt that an event took place arises; that an event was added to blow out the story into more than it was.

Now, if one wants to invoke the divine, it could be said that the events the writers of the respective gospels didn't actually witness, were transcendentally or divinely related to them at a later time.

I very much agree with your comments. I think the whole Bible was inspired by God regardless of who witnessed what, and for those events where the author was most likely nowhere near what he wrote about.

This causes me no doubt at all, nor do I rely on Scripture for evidence for our God.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
[
quote=outhouse;3231943]Most scholars claim it is fictional. Pilate was a brutal killer with no remorse and had a hatred for Galileans. No where in history has a man like him ever given a choice between prisoners to be set free.
According to the Gospels (Matthew 27:15, Mark 15:6, Luke 23: 16-17, John 18:39) it was customary to release a prisoner of choice at Passover. Pilate by nature was surel tyrannical, but he was probably no fool. He would have realized that it would be easier to control happy Jews, so he would have no problem letting them choose someone to walk, IMO.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
[According to the Gospels (Matthew 27:15, Mark 15:6, Luke 23: 16-17, John 18:39) it was customary to release a prisoner of choice at Passover. Pilate by nature was surel tyrannical, but he was probably no fool. He would have realized that it would be easier to control happy Jews, so he would have no problem letting them choose someone to walk, IMO.

Yet no recods outside the gospels exist of anyone releasing prisoners at passovers.

We have many different records of passovers and no such tradition exist.


We also know it was the authors' agenda to make Romans look like the nice guy not the enemy.


I agree he wasnt a fool, but he was a brutal heartless man who would not have remorse for killing both. He definately would not have caved to pressure from his oppressed Jews.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Pilate...as a roman officer was not reqired to keep record?

And I really doubt the Carpenter's trial was private.
Speech was likely restricted to the two participants.
One on One.


He was probably not a carpenter.

There was little to no wood in Nazareth.

Not only that in Galilee, a tekton was a displaced peasant who probably rented and was known as a hand worker doing odd jobs.

Carpenter is just a poor translation.


Jesus was martyred at this passover, and this event generated the oral tradition that spread throughout the Roman empire. Sedition and tax evasion were his biblical charges, but causing a stink in the temple at passover would get you thrown on a cross without a trial of any kind. Its not even kown if Pilate or Caiaphas would have taken the time for a trouble maker.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
that doesn't mean there was some devious intent to portray Jews as worse than Romans.


What are you even talking about?


No one is portaying Jesus as worse then Romans. The gospels were written to and for Romans, and Jesus was their man of choice to worship his ways of teaching.


Did you even read what was posted and understand it at all?

Pontius Pilate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Pilate's reluctance to execute Jesus in the gospels has been seen as reflecting the authors' agenda.[24][25] It has thus been argued that gospel accounts place the blame on the Jews, not on Rome, in line with the authors' alleged goal of making peace with the Roman Empire and vilifying the Jews.[24][25]


There is no debate about this.
progress.gif
 
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BSM1

What? Me worry?
Yet no recods outside the gospels exist of anyone releasing prisoners at passovers.

We have many different records of passovers and no such tradition exist.


We also know it was the authors' agenda to make Romans look like the nice guy not the enemy.


I agree he wasnt a fool, but he was a brutal heartless man who would not have remorse for killing both. He definately would not have caved to pressure from his oppressed Jews.


Point taken.
 
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