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Why is an athiest and athiest?

Me Myself

Back to my username
Religious people are not the only people who want to provoke you from having freedom, all people do. All philosophies believe in restricting people: Christianity, Islam, Humanism, Antinatalism, Primitivism, Socialism, etc.

It's so goofy when you ask religious people why they don't allow you to do X, when they could ask you why you don't allow people to do something you find immoral. It's all about feelings. Religious people have different feelings.

Well put. Morality is about restrictions based on feelings :yes:
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
I may point out here that there is a difference between following a religion and believing in a God. You can believe in a God without being religious.

Also, you can be religious without believing in a God. You can be religious without following a religion. You could also follow a religion without believing in a God.
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
It's only really in the last couple of years that the oddness of the atheist label has actually instilled itself upon me.

I mean, in how many other aspects of our lives do we define ourselves by that which we lack? Not having a belief in a deity should affect our personality about as much as not being able to play a musical instrument, or not being able to swim.
Other people might think it's disadvantageous not to know how to swim or play the piano, or have no interest/ability in innumerable other areas yet we don't let those people's opinions shape our worldview.
However with atheism, a term that only exists in counter-position to worldviews the person in question rejects as false and largely irrelevant, has developed a culture of it's own to the point where we now seem to have atheist apologetics.
Is it just me who thinks this is odd?
I don't find it odd, since most atheists live in cultures in which they are an often misunderstood and maligned minority.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
I don't find it odd, since most atheists live in cultures in which they are an often misunderstood and maligned minority.
That atheists are considered a coherent minority as also weird to me. There is no reason for any two randomly selected atheists to share any common aspects to their worldview, other than that they don't worship any kind of deity.
I also don't see why an atheist should feel the need to defend their position, especially in the western world where religion isn't a matter of life and death, like it is in the Muslim world.

Why should my disbelief in a deity have any more influence over my personality, culture and social circle than my dislike for cabbage?
 

dust1n

Zindīq
That atheists are considered a coherent minority as also weird to me. There is no reason for any two randomly selected atheists to share any common aspects to their worldview, other than that they don't worship any kind of deity.
I also don't see why an atheist should feel the need to defend their position, especially in the western world where religion isn't a matter of life and death, like it is in the Muslim world.

Why should my disbelief in a deity have any more influence over my personality, culture and social circle than my dislike for cabbage?

It sort of follows that a lack of disbelief is prone to draw similar personalities, and indeed being an atheist influences my personality... if by personality you mean my character, my morals, my life, my sentiments about various aspects of the world.

I fail to see how people's taste for foods is anyhow equivalent to the aspects that make their entire worldviews.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I grew up without any religion as a child. I never felt as though anyone was against me at all. No one treated me any different than anyone else. People don't treat me any different now that I am a theist than they did when I was an agnostic child and teenager (when I didn't believe I never hid it and I don't hide it now that I am a theist- if you have that question). I tend to believe that the majority of people are just worried about living their lives and making ends meet. I also believe that those theists or athiests who keeping pushing their agenda are insecure. (This would mean that most people are not insecure about what they believe or don't believe :) ). Just my 2 cents.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Religious people are not the only people who want to provoke you from having freedom, all people do. All philosophies believe in restricting people: Christianity, Islam, Humanism, Antinatalism, Primitivism, Socialism, etc.

It's so goofy when you ask religious people why they don't allow you to do X, when they could ask you why you don't allow people to do something you find immoral. It's all about feelings. Religious people have different feelings.

Frubal!

This I agree with. Anyone who has strong convictions about something are going to try to get others to follow or at least agree with their agendas- it is NOT limited to theists and the religious.

I have seen shirts that say "meat is murder"- that is a judgment call- and both theists and non-theists, and athiests can make that judgment call. It is a judgment call because people who eat meat don't see it as murder. The people who do believe that meat is murder have the same rights as anyone else about their beliefs, but not everyone is going to believe the same way.
 

crocusj

Active Member
Religious people are not the only people who want to provoke you from having freedom, all people do. All philosophies believe in restricting people: Christianity, Islam, Humanism, Antinatalism, Primitivism, Socialism, etc.

It's so goofy when you ask religious people why they don't allow you to do X, when they could ask you why you don't allow people to do something you find immoral. It's all about feelings. Religious people have different feelings.
All of this is true, of course, but I don't think it is "goofy" to ask anybody why they would deny another a freedom. We should pointedly demand of anyone why they think they have the right to deny another or why they themselves should have more rights than another merely by dint that they are somehow "different". It is undeniable that "religious people" discriminate against atheists in some countries, that others do the same does not answer the question. Is it "goofy" of me to ask why there are religious discrimination laws in my country? Would they be there if nobody had asked a question? I live in a country where - as an atheist - I cannot ascend to the head of the country, though to be fair, this would be the same if I were Roman Catholic. And...PennyKay did not ask the question of all religious people, only of those who would discriminate . And why should she not ask that? Why should we not all ask that?
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I grew up without any religion as a child. I never felt as though anyone was against me at all. No one treated me any different than anyone else. People don't treat me any different now that I am a theist than they did when I was an agnostic child and teenager (when I didn't believe I never hid it and I don't hide it now that I am a theist- if you have that question). I tend to believe that the majority of people are just worried about living their lives and making ends meet. I also believe that those theists or athiests who keeping pushing their agenda are insecure. (This would mean that most people are not insecure about what they believe or don't believe :) ). Just my 2 cents.

That's great, but it says in the Bible that people will be against you for following Jesus.
 

crocusj

Active Member
Frubal!

This I agree with. Anyone who has strong convictions about something are going to try to get others to follow or at least agree with their agendas- it is NOT limited to theists and the religious.
Really. You agree with this...
It's so goofy when you ask religious people why they don't allow you to do X
So lions are ok with you then?
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I disagree. It is impossible to put limitations on feelings and thoughts- even if you try to do it to yourself. You can only restrict actions. :)
He did not say anything about restricting thoughts and emotions, he said the restrictions are based on emotions.

For example, banning same sex marriage simply because some people find it yucky.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
That's great, but it says in the Bible that people will be against you for following Jesus.

What's that got to do with anything? :rolleyes: I was saying that people don't torment me here in the USA. We have diversity here. And I do know that people dislike my religion- they don't hold it against me. Stop reading things that aren't there and that I didn't say. Kind of irritating. :foot::foot: Not everyone likes me- I just don't care about it.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Really. You agree with this...
So lions are ok with you then?

All I said is that people have strong convictions about things other than religion. Religion isn't exclusive in that. Whatever else you are assuming, I haven't the slightest idea what it was. And theists can have strong convictions in non-religious things as well. I didn't say otherwise.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
He did not say anything about restricting thoughts and emotions, he said the restrictions are based on emotions.

For example, banning same sex marriage simply because some people find it yucky.

Do you think that is possible? Are you going to tell people: "You can't vote on that because you feel it is wrong". We have to educate people. Biology is proving that people are born gay, for instance. Not everyone is going to believe it- but if the information is there, a lot of them will change how they feel or at least know that how they feel isn't a good reason to ban something. I think we all have to see that not everyone thinks like we do.

I have come to accept that non-Christians are not going to follow the rules that I follow and I wouldn't want to force them- not that I could. It won't happen overnight. Then there are those who call it enabling. I am not one of those- I know that people have a right to make their own decisions- any information is out there.

Lastly, no one has to condone anything. We want tolerance, but we can't force acceptance.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
I disagree. It is impossible to put limitations on feelings and thoughts- even if you try to do it to yourself. You can only restrict actions. :)

Huh? I dont think you got it. I said ... Well you can read it again. I didnt say we must limit feelings, I said all moral restrictions are BASED on feelings.

Lke your example on meat. I feel it is wrong to kill other animals for gastronomical pleasure (given survival doesnt have to do with it when you do have other options). You disagree with this, because you feel differently. We both think abortion is wrong, because we feel that life is important since conception.

Most people accept cold blooded murder because you dislike someone is wrong whether they are religious or not because it feels fundamentally unacceptable (To most people)

Morality is based on feelings. Equally so, moral restrictions are based on feelings.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Do you think that is possible? Are you going to tell people: "You can't vote on that because you feel it is wrong". We have to educate people. Biology is proving that people are born gay, for instance. Not everyone is going to believe it- but if the information is there, a lot of them will change how they feel or at least know that how they feel isn't a good reason to ban something. I think we all have to see that not everyone thinks like we do.

I have come to accept that non-Christians are not going to follow the rules that I follow and I wouldn't want to force them- not that I could. It won't happen overnight. Then there are those who call it enabling. I am not one of those- I know that people have a right to make their own decisions- any information is out there.

Lastly, no one has to condone anything. We want tolerance, but we can't force acceptance.
While I agree with what you said, I think you still completely missed my point :D
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
That atheists are considered a coherent minority as also weird to me. There is no reason for any two randomly selected atheists to share any common aspects to their worldview, other than that they don't worship any kind of deity.
That's all that lumps theists together too. I mean, at least atheists are relatively homogenous in that they don't believe that gods exist. Compare that with the myriad of different sorts of gods that theists believe in.
I also don't see why an atheist should feel the need to defend their position, especially in the western world where religion isn't a matter of life and death, like it is in the Muslim world.
So, if it's not a matter of life and death, you don't feel a need to defend your opinion? What if someone asks you it and then tells you you're wrong and going to hell?

It's simply a belief like any other, and a belief that happens to be in a minority. I don't know why you are so against this belief having a name.

Why should my disbelief in a deity have any more influence over my personality, culture and social circle than my dislike for cabbage?
Who said it did?
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
People tend to "sort" people into groups- I suppose it might be natural, but it seldom fits anyone. All atheists don't believe in God, but that might be the only thing they have in common. Theists may all believe in God, but0 the same. There is more than one kind of theist, monotheist, pantheist, panenthiest, polytheist, etc- the concept of God is different.

People seldom fit into neat little boxes. And we all know that theists and atheists are perfectly capable of having many other things in common.
 
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