Christian: other christians

Corban said:

This is a question to those who call themselves Christians. What do you believe will happen to other Christians who do not believe the way you do? If you are catholic, what of non-catholics, if baptist, what of non-baptists, if methodist what of non-methodis, and so on.

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I believe that God will choose to save who He choses through the power of Jesus Christ, be they a confessing member of a Christian denomenation or a devout member of any other religion. We will all be judged according to God's righteous standard and may God have mercy on us all.

EDIT: So I agree with the previous statement:

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

But I also believe that God will save those whom he selects from faiths that require its members to reject Christ.

angellous_evangellous said:

But I also believe that God will save those whom he selects from faiths that require its members to reject Christ.

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That's an interesting view... but of course if one chooses in their heart to reject christ and join such a faith, I find it hard to believe that they will go to heaven. Now, if they were forced to join that faith and reject christ, that may be a different story, but if they had been a christian and they choose to reject christ because it may mean death, then they're in trouble. Matthew 16:24-25 says "If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it".

Daniel Burbank said:

That's an interesting view... but of course if one chooses in their heart to reject christ and join such a faith, I find it hard to believe that they will go to heaven. Now, if they were forced to join that faith and reject christ, that may be a different story, but if they had been a christian and they choose to reject christ because it may mean death, then they're in trouble. Matthew 16:24-25 says "If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it".

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Salvation is not dependent upon the actions of any human being, but it is a gift from God. Blessed are those who believe in life, but God will save those whom He chooses based on righteous judgment.

Romans 9 (English Standard)
14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.


19You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"

20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25As indeed he says in Hosea,

"Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,'
and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'"
26"And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,'
there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"

Terrywoodenpic said:

I do not believe it is sufficient to have faith in Christ .
Salvation is not a once and for all time thing.

You can have faith in Christ and live a thoroughly un-Christ like life.
you must have seen the "devout christian" who calls down the wrath of God on people who disagree with his views. ( in the 50's we had our fields cursed, for getting in the harvest on a sunday).
I am sure our final Judgment includes, repentance, the love in our hearts and our actions towards others in this life. Plainly this can not take place till we are dead.

Of course accepting Christ and living our lives according to his teachings is the first step to Salvation.

Terry_______________________
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.

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This is tough ground... if you accept Jesus truly, then the law of God should become the primary law that you follow. I have heard it said that it becomes "written in your heart". If you sin once in a while, and repent of it, then you will be forgiven because we are all sinners and none is immune from sin. But if you consistently sin and do not show any remorse from your ways, then you risk judgement. You should always ask forgiveness of the lord when you sin. But remember that good works alone will not get you into heaven if you willingly reject Jesus or you purposely do not confess your sins (the Pharisees of Jesus' time, for example).

I believe anyone who truly repents of their sin, believes that Jesus is the Christ, makes him Lord of their life, and submits their will to His will be saved. I'm not gonna be standing in the pentecostal section in heaven because heaven will be inhabited by all who believe. It doesn't matter what you call yourself, it is the condition of your soull in the eyes of God that matters.

Grace and peace to all who call Jesus Lord!!!

I actually believe that people of all faiths will be welcomed into Heaven. I think we are all here for a purpose. If Christianity is the true religion, then maybe Muslims, Jews, Budhists, and even Atheists are here to make us think and strengthen our own beliefs.

I know the Bible says that whoever believes in Christ will be saved. However, I can't understand how someone who has never met Christ, never knew of his teachings, would be condemned to Hell for all eternity for simply being born in the wrong place.

I don't think that's how God works. If anything, that person who has never met Christ, that would not be their fault. That would be OUR fault for not finding them and introducing them.

Daniel Burbank said:

Now I wouldn't go that far. Don't live this life thinking that you will have a chance to repent after you die, because you might not.

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Very wise answer. The Lord in all his grace might give us a second chance after we die, but the Bible doesn't say one way or the other. So I completely agree.

pdoel said:

I actually believe that people of all faiths will be welcomed into Heaven. I think we are all here for a purpose. If Christianity is the true religion, then maybe Muslims, Jews, Budhists, and even Atheists are here to make us think and strengthen our own beliefs.

I know the Bible says that whoever believes in Christ will be saved. However, I can't understand how someone who has never met Christ, never knew of his teachings, would be condemned to Hell for all eternity for simply being born in the wrong place.

I don't think that's how God works. If anything, that person who has never met Christ, that would not be their fault. That would be OUR fault for not finding them and introducing them.

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I understand, but we just don't know. Those who have never heard of Jesus might get a chance after death. The Bible clearly says it will be better for those that never knew, than for those who the truth and choose not to follow it.

I am on the fence on this idea. Jesus warns us that not everyone who calls Him Lord will enter heaven but only those who do God's Will (Matthew 7:21). Yet, I cannot believe the majority of Christianity is wrong as the statement could imply. The question is: what is God's Will? Some say just believe. Scripture teaches belief, confession, repentance, and baptism are required (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38). Baptism for some is sprinkling, pouring, or immersion. This doesnt even touch on how to live or worship.

The OT has ample lessons on how God does not tolerate doing more or less than what He commands and will mete out retribution. So will He mete out retribution on all those who are not following His Will?

I for one believe that the only ones who are saved are those in the Church of Christ. This is not a religion because religion is just something man made. The Church transcends religious doctrine and all the divisions in it. Christ's church cannot be divided. As for who is part of the true Church of Christ, that is for each person to decide for themselves. We will all answer for our decisions in the End. If we are given a second chance than all the better. Unfortunately from what we do know of God's nature from the OT a second chance cannot be counted on nor does it seem likely (Hebrews 9:27).

When in Christ...it's all ONE Body...the body of Christ...

angellous_evangellous said:

But I also believe that God will save those whom he selects from faiths that require its members to reject Christ.

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This idea is not contrary to the above statement from Vatican II... a person may reject Christ in accordance to his/her understanding of revealed truth... I do believe that Divine Mercy will "take into account" all the factors that make up the person (for instance, very few people born in a Muslim country are ignorant of Christ but do reject his saving power and divinity).

Scott

Terrywoodenpic said:

I would go even further...
I do not believe we are ever SAVED during this life,
Judgement comes before God as does the possibility of repentance,
Our sins are either forgiven or our total identity (soul) is wiped clean.
Again rather heretical.

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I don't believe we are saved during this life either. The scriptures say that he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Katzpur said:

I don't believe we are saved during this life either. The scriptures say that he who endures to the end shall be saved.

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Quite right and I've said as much before. It brings to mind an Orthodox acquaintance on another forum who was being attacked by a rather vitriolic Protestant who said "I have concerns about your salvation". His response was, "Well, so do I". We do not believe anyone in this life is 'saved' and so nobody can complacently rest on an assurance of salvation.

James

Katzpur said:

I enjoyed your post and agree with much of what you have said. I'm interested in your thoughts on the 2nd chance you speak of. Could you elaborate a bit more on this. I'm often told I am somehow a heretic since this is also my belief. Quite possibly the details of my belief are not the same as yours, but I don't often see anyone outside of my own faith express this belief.

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Thanx! What I meant was that those who never heard the good news about the Christ - perhaps they died before it reached them - would be resurrected and given a "2nd chance" to make the decision whether they wanted to worship God on HIS terms or not. Since John 5:28,29 says that 'ALL those in the graves will hear his voice and come out', that means the righteous AND the unrighteous. So there will be a resurrection of 'good people AND bad'. During Christ's thousand yr reign they will have the opportunity to learn the truth about God with no false religion or political factions getting in the way because this old order of things will have been done away with. It will be easier to learn then. Some will adhere and some will not...

(BTW, I'm an animal lover, too!)

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'll give my take on salvation. Basically, I'm a universalist.

God is love.

Paul says that nothing can separate us from the love of God.

God so loved the world that he sent his only-begotten Son.

Since Christ has come, was crucified, died, buried and on the third day resurrected for the expiation of sin, all sin has been forgiven.

God is a loving, forbearing God. Since God is omnicient, God knows that we are all sinful. Therefore, he came to us in the form of a human to save us from our sin.

God did not create anyone whom God knew would wind up being separated from God.

God desires unity with every human being.

God will ultimately bring everyone into union with God.

A little simplistically written, and obviously truncated, but that's it in a nutshell.

sojourner said:

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'll give my take on salvation. Basically, I'm a universalist.

God is love.

Paul says that nothing can separate us from the love of God.

God so loved the world that he sent his only-begotten Son.

Since Christ has come, was crucified, died, buried and on the third day resurrected for the expiation of sin, all sin has been forgiven.

God is a loving, forbearing God. Since God is omnicient, God knows that we are all sinful. Therefore, he came to us in the form of a human to save us from our sin.

God did not create anyone whom God knew would wind up being separated from God.

God desires unity with every human being.

God will ultimately bring everyone into union with God.

A little simplistically written, and obviously truncated, but that's it in a nutshell.

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I agree with everything you posted here except...I believe there are those who choose not to accept what God has given us in Christ. Those who deny Christ have denied God. Separation from God is inevitable.

dawny0826 said:

I agree with everything you posted here except...I believe there are those who choose not to accept what God has given us in Christ. Those who deny Christ have denied God. Separation from God is inevitable.

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Interesting. Then, how do you interpret the scripture that says nothing can separate us from the love of God? I'm also interested in knowing how you reconcile this: since God knows all, then God would know that some would reject the gift of grace, and that those people would be eternally separated from God. How does God show love to those who reject the gift of grace? also: what are your thoughts regarding grace? Grace is given freely. There is nothing we can do to earn it. How is grace then dependent upon whether or not we accept it? Does not our action of acceptance constitute "doing something" to obtain grace? Thanks for your reply.

sojourner said:

Interesting. Then, how do you interpret the scripture that says nothing can separate us from the love of God? I'm also interested in knowing how you reconcile this: since God knows all, then God would know that some would reject the gift of grace, and that those people would be eternally separated from God. How does God show love to those who reject the gift of grace? also: what are your thoughts regarding grace? Grace is given freely. There is nothing we can do to earn it. How is grace then dependent upon whether or not we accept it? Does not our action of acceptance constitute "doing something" to obtain grace? Thanks for your reply.

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I agree...we can not be separated from God's love....He loves us regardless.

But our salvation is IN Jesus Christ. We are redeemed by the blood of Jesus.

I'm a Christian...I believe that God loves us regardless but to be forgiven...to truly come to the Throne of Grace, I believe we must accept the sacrifice that Christ made for us.

DTrent said:

Thanx! What I meant was that those who never heard the good news about the Christ - perhaps they died before it reached them - would be resurrected and given a "2nd chance" to make the decision whether they wanted to worship God on HIS terms or not. Since John 5:28,29 says that 'ALL those in the graves will hear his voice and come out', that means the righteous AND the unrighteous. So there will be a resurrection of 'good people AND bad'. During Christ's thousand yr reign they will have the opportunity to learn the truth about God with no false religion or political factions getting in the way because this old order of things will have been done away with. It will be easier to learn then. Some will adhere and some will not...

(BTW, I'm an animal lover, too!)

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What you've said makes perfect sense to me.

There inevitably comes a time when evil, the devil and matter fail as an answer to life’s problems. People intuitively know that God is one and that we are all united in pure consciousness; therefore, no one is left out of heaven, and everyone possess the inherent ability to discover God. No one needs to remain in evil and darkness, if one desires to find light and live in God consciousness. When everything is seen as God, then there is nothing evil that can oppose God or divine consciousness. The devil cannot squelch, repeal or conceal God consciousness just like we cannot stop the sun from rising; nothing has the power to stop pure consciousness in the individual mind.
Christ consciousness i