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Mammon

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Luke 16:9 I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings

What is the difference between "possessions" and "mammon"?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
An example of what I mean that mammon does not always mean physical possessions.

1 Corinthians 4:8 Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! You have become kings--and that without us! How I wish that you really had become kings so that we might be kings with you!

He is talking about how they were feeling powerful in spirit. But they were not there yet. So their feeling of spiritual riches could be called "unrighteous". They were trusting in their (spiritual) riches.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And I thought of a scriptural text that kind sorta proves the twelve did not have (much) money. If they had a lot of money (enough to call it money and not food) why would Judas settle with the Pharisees for such a small amount? When someone has a lot a little is not worth the trouble, unless you are Scrooge. Is Judas Scrooge?
 

Lady B

noob
And I thought of a scriptural text that kind sorta proves the twelve did not have (much) money. If they had a lot of money (enough to call it money and not food) why would Judas settle with the Pharisees for such a small amount? When someone has a lot a little is not worth the trouble, unless you are Scrooge. Is Judas Scrooge?
Hi Savagewind, I have been gone a while, hope you enjoyed your holidays! I am not exactly sure what your asking in your op, but mammon is defined as greed or the personification of greed, whether it be actual money or possessions or worldly goods that take your eyes off of God. It is written you cannot serve God and mammon, It is saying you have put greed over your God and the two cannot be reconciled.As we see in Exodus when Moses lead the people out of captivity in Egypt, the people grumbled about what they would eat and drink, and God was angry that they lost their focus and doubted God will provide for them. Jesus also says don't care for what you wear or what you will eat, take up your cross and follow me. God wants us to rely on him rather then money in the bank. Not to say being a hardworker and saving for a rainy day is not good, but what do we need from God when we have everything we need on earth? And what do we do with our money really? Play, build larger and larger homes, collect rare and expensive things to fill our homes? While
To a degree these things are acceptable as long as your being good stewards and your heart is not greedy. The bible says it is harder for a rich man to see heaven then putting a camel through the eye of a needle....That Tells us those with much are responsible for much and need to be sure he is not putting his treasures on earth rather then in heaven.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
mammon is defined as greed or the personification of greed, whether it be actual money or possessions or worldly goods that take your eyes off of God

No. Mammon can not mean greed because Luke 16:9 which are Jesus' words too say to make friends by means of it. Putting the importance of mammon ahead of the will of God does maybe mean greed.

I have been gone a while, hope you enjoyed your holidays!
I missed you. I ate too many cookies.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Is mammon a way for making friends?

and I say to you, Make to yourselves friends out of the mammon of unrighteousness, that when ye may fail, they may receive you to the age-during tabernacles
Young's Literal Translation Luke 16:9
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The presence of the feeling of uncertainty is obvious to me here; "when you may fail". Luke 16:9 It is also here; Seek Yahweh.... It may be that you will be hidden in the day of Yahweh's anger. Zephaniah 2:3

So mammon is money? Will money help save me? No? But Luke 16:9 says it is a helper. It is a helper for making friends.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is my conclusion.

The body of Christians believe mammon means money. We are to make friends by means of it. OR Luke 16:9 is wrong. If Luke 16:9 is wrong then nothing written of what The Christ said can be trusted, can it? If it can, then how am I to know which scriptures are real and which are not?
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
I think you are over-thinking this.

If I were to say, "Love is the sweetener that reduces the bitterness of life", it does not mean that love=sugar, honey or nutra=sweet.
As for Luke, like I said, some translate the meaning as use your wealth in this world, because it will not be there for you when you leave. Also remember that Jesus calls the manager in the parable "unrighteous".
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Can I make friends by means of how wisely I use my wealth? Surely! Can I make friends of Holy Ones the same way? That is what Luke 16:9 indicates if you are right about "mammon".
 

Lady B

noob
Ok, I have found some possible answers for you by reading back Luke 15 and seeing the context. I am not sure If you studied the background context here but I will briefly summarize it anyways....

The tax collectors were seen as the lowest of low to the Pharisees, because they worked with the government and they often times cheated the people and over charged them. So Christ actually made acquaintances with them and called one man out of them to be his disciple,Matthew. The Pharisees in this day were grumbling amongst themselves saying " look at Jesus he befriends these vile tax collectors".

About Luke 16:9, I will put the Actual verse from New American Standard Bible here just in case anyone wants to see.

And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous mammon, so that when it fails, they whom you have favored may receive and welcome you into the everlasting habitations.

The Parable in Luke 16:1 sets the backdrop for this verse, There was a employee (debt collector) who was squandering his masters money and so some one went to tell the Master what this man was doing. And so the master fired his employee as a result. The employee was worried for his future because all he had done in his life was this work and he knew no other, and so he devised a plan...In This culture If you were good to people and excepted in their homes, you knew you would be fed for life, and so he went about to all the people he had collected his masters debts from and lowered their debts to make friends and be excepted in their homes. When his master heard of this, he actually praised the man for being so shrewd to take care of his future. And so Jesus then spoke to his disciples this verse you see here.

If we go further down we can see How Jesus defined mammon.

Luke 16:13-14 No servant is able to serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stand by and be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon .14 Now the Pharisees, who were covetous and lovers of money, heard all these things taken together, and they began to sneer at and ridicule and scoff at Him. 15 But He said to them, “You are the ones who declare yourselves just and upright before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted and highly thought of among men is detestable and abhorrent in the sight of God. 16 Until John came, there were the Law and the Prophets; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone strives violently to go in would force his own way rather than God's way into it. 17 Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to fail and become void. Amplified Bible

:) hope this helps...
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
hope this helps...

Not really. What does Jesus say? Can I make friends with the Holy Ones (the only ones who HAVE an everlasting dwelling place) with earthly possessions? If yes, rich people have a better chance for heavenly life than poor people do because they have much more to share, not a worse chance as he says here; Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Not really. What does Jesus say? Can I make friends with the Holy Ones (the only ones who HAVE an everlasting dwelling place) with earthly possessions? If yes, rich people have a better chance for heavenly life than poor people do because they have much more to share, not a worse chance as he says here; Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24

IMO when it states to use ones wealth in gaining friends it means helping out people without an expectation of return, not cleverly "buying friends" in the modern western sense.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
IMO when it states to use ones wealth in gaining friends it means helping out people without an expectation of return, not cleverly "buying friends" in the modern western sense. :facepalm:

Yes I know. But by doing so CAN I GET TO HEAVEN? (AS THE SCRIPTURE IN LUKE IMPLIES.):eek:
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The sons of this generation (speaking of the wise steward who represents those doing business in this world in contrast to the sons of the kingdom who stretch forward to the kingdom) are wiser than the sons of the light in their own generation therefore LISTEN make friends (obviously friends of light not darkness as worldly business is) with the mammon of unrighteousness then when unrighteousness fails (it always does) they might receive you into the eternal dwellings.

Who might receive you? The ones you made friends with. The ones who dwell in eternity.

I think what you are trying to say is the friends made and the ones welcoming are different ones. Is that right?
 
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