Is Spanking Children immoral to you?

No, as I said, I could find studies that support my position (and have read some interesting ones as part of my studies at uni) so it is not mere 'speculation' however yes it is my own opinion.

InformedIgnorance said:

Rather than spanking children being immoral, I think having a policy of NOT spanking children is immoral.

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i think that is just perpetuating old school ideas into the 21st century...

it's time to move forward.

Really? The emphasis there was on the policy component, i.e. a systematic rejection of the use of corporal punishment and even the punishment of those who do so - that to me is immoral as it is society attempting to force parents to raise their children in a certain manner when throughout history corporal punishment has been used and there are at least some studies that support (others oppose) the idea that it can be beneficial when used appropriately.

Certainly when used inappropriately it is harmful and as such yes it should be a potential issue of abuse, however it is a parenting TOOL - so a systematic rejection by society of a tool that can be used by parents to modify negative behaviours of their children is in fact harmful to the children, their parents and society in general.

Kids have no discipline these days. Most of them need a good whack on the backside to remind them that respect is a two way street.

Schools (here in Australia anyway) need some for of violent punishment for trouble makers who ruin everyone elses education by trying to be funny.

Personally I think that should only be the domain of the guardians and those that they explicitly give permission to, I do not like the idea of organisations (even schools) being allowed to do so. But you are right, there are a lot of kids around that surely need a thick ear - certainly did wonders for me. I was only ever given corporal punishment a few times - I remember each and I certainly changed my tune, for the better, these days I look back at such events and can say that I benefited from them.

InformedIgnorance said:

Certainly when used inappropriately it is harmful and as such yes it should be a potential issue of abuse, however it is a parenting TOOL - so a systematic rejection by society of a tool that can be used by parents to modify negative behaviours of their children is in fact harmful to the children, their parents and society in general.

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Informed, get informed (sorry, I couldn't resist) on the efficacy of punishment in changing behavior. It'll be in any psychology 101 textbook you pick up. Punishment in general - regardless of what age group you're talking about - is indeed effective at countering an undesired behavior in the short term and if the punishment is clearly associated with the behavior by the person being punished. It is far less effective over the long term because it does not teach the punished person what the correct behavior is or why what they did was incorrect behavior. On top of that, punishment also teaches ethics and values that most of us would object to (e.g. violence is an acceptable response to a problem).

Why would you use an ineffectual tool for raising your children when you can use other tools that are far more effective? Why would you use methods that condone or encourage additional undesirable behaviors by modeling them and thus implying they are acceptable?

The Sum of Awe said:

If a kid misbehaves do you believe it's okay to spank them?

Reminisce I say spank not shoot Seems like quite a few got that confused when I asked that on yahoo answers.

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'Tis a shame this has to be debated by so many people who claim to be wise. (You're right, smart people know we are not referring to shooting or abuse.)


"In real life Goliath wins."

In real life, the guy who dies with the most toys does not win. In fact, we all shudder for what happens next.

The short term is important, particularly in setting up established patterns of behaviour - PARTICULARLY for those individuals who are strongly resistant to change. Punishment does not teach the reasoning true - but I never said to punish the child without giving reasons - that is absurd, it is a tool - not a panacea! Corporal punishment is useful only when used appropriately as one part of parents' tool set for their children's developing years.

Corporal punishment teaches that violence is an acceptable response to a problem? Nonsense, if such punishment is capable of being construed as 'violence' it is probably being done emotionally, but even if it is not - that is clearly a case where the parent is not performing it properly (hence my stipulation of it being used 'appropriately' yes I know this is a subjective term, however that is what parenting is all about)

Other tools are effective true, however in some cases, corporal punishment is very effective, for some - the most effective. To have a systematic rejection of this is absurd, but I completely agree that some people take it too far, which is why I said that I believe it can be a form of abuse.

There are two possible ways to get anyone to obey you. You can make them fear you or you can make them love you. It is fairly obvious which method spanking uses.

The type of "good" behavior induced by punishment is actually hypocrisy. By hypocrisy, I mean "acting" good as opposed to actually being good. Due to ignorant parentage, many human beings never figure out any better motivation for good behavior than fear of the consequences of bad behavior. Actual good is selfless, but these beings fall short in their offerings to God because their offerings are not to God at all.

Raise your children to do good because they love you.

Not really, it is just bad parenting IMHO

As a "victim" of this kind of discipline, I wouldn't push this kind of way for parents to raise kids. It took time for me and my dad to be "reconciled" and for me to be comfortable with him.

A nice article about The Long-Term Effects of Spanking from time magazine.

Corporal punishment instills fear rather than understanding. Even if children stop tantrums when spanked, that doesn't mean they get why they shouldn't have been acting up in the first place. What's more, spanking sets a bad example, teaching children that aggressive behavior is a solution to their parents' problems.

"There is now some nice hard data that can back up clinicians when they share their caution with parents against using corporal punishment," says Dr. Jayne Singer, clinical director of the child and parent program at Children's Hospital Boston, who was not involved with the Tulane study.
The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) does not endorse spanking under any circumstance. It's a form of punishment that becomes less effective with repeated use, according to the AAP; it also makes discipline more difficult as the child outgrows it.


Read more: The Long-Term Effects of Spanking - TIME

Wannabe Yogi said:

A nice article about The Long-Term Effects of Spanking from time magazine.

Corporal punishment instills fear rather than understanding. Even if children stop tantrums when spanked, that doesn't mean they get why they shouldn't have been acting up in the first place. What's more, spanking sets a bad example, teaching children that aggressive behavior is a solution to their parents' problems.

"There is now some nice hard data that can back up clinicians when they share their caution with parents against using corporal punishment," says Dr. Jayne Singer, clinical director of the child and parent program at Children's Hospital Boston, who was not involved with the Tulane study.
The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) does not endorse spanking under any circumstance. It's a form of punishment that becomes less effective with repeated use, according to the AAP; it also makes discipline more difficult as the child outgrows it.


Read more: The Long-Term Effects of Spanking - TIME

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I just really do wonder how they come up with these conclusions. Some of the stats presented here. I wonder because nobody asked me if I was spanked. How many of you have been studied or answered a survey? Do you think Obama got a spanking? Or how about any of our "top people". I just get skeptical of stats even though I love em.

InformedIgnorance said:

The short term is important, particularly in setting up established patterns of behaviour - PARTICULARLY for those individuals who are strongly resistant to change. Punishment does not teach the reasoning true - but I never said to punish the child without giving reasons - that is absurd, it is a tool - not a panacea! Corporal punishment is useful only when used appropriately as one part of parents' tool set for their children's developing years.

Corporal punishment teaches that violence is an acceptable response to a problem? Nonsense, if such punishment is capable of being construed as 'violence' it is probably being done emotionally, but even if it is not - that is clearly a case where the parent is not performing it properly (hence my stipulation of it being used 'appropriately' yes I know this is a subjective term, however that is what parenting is all about)

Other tools are effective true, however in some cases, corporal punishment is very effective, for some - the most effective. To have a systematic rejection of this is absurd, but I completely agree that some people take it too far, which is why I said that I believe it can be a form of abuse.

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Fair enough. However, I personally find the idea of using violence to punish behavior - particularly in children - abhorrent. Blast, I find verbally abusing children abhorrent. The neighbor downstairs from me yells and swears at her pre-teen child loud enough that I can hear her. Not long after, I usually hear her child sobbing in fear and pain. It's disgusting. No, that's putting it mildly. It's so disgusting I don't have a word for it. It's absolutely unacceptable. I can't condone that kind of behavior. My heart doesn't allow it.

Banner said:

I just really do wonder how they come up with these conclusions. Some of the stats presented here. I wonder because nobody asked me if I was spanked. How many of you have been studied or answered a survey? Do you think Obama got a spanking? Or how about any of our "top people". I just get skeptical of stats even though I love em.

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Just FYI/reminder, most survey samples are representative samples of a larger population so you can validly extrapolate to some larger population of interest without being faced with the impossible task of surveying every single individual in your target population. The number of surveys administered is therefore not very large. A large survey would use an n = 1,000 (many use far less than that and still have adequate statistical power). America has a population of roughly 313 million. This means your odds of being selected are roughly 0.000003% for any specific survey that is n = 1,000. In other words, we shouldn't at all be surprised if someone hasn't been asked to take a survey (or have forgotten that they did).

I did survey work for part of my graduate thesis, so I had to comment on this issue. =P

Banner said:

I just really do wonder how they come up with these conclusions. Some of the stats presented here. I wonder because nobody asked me if I was spanked. How many of you have been studied or answered a survey? Do you think Obama got a spanking? Or how about any of our "top people". I just get skeptical of stats even though I love em.

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My views are based on raising my son and working with small children at risk and extreme behaviors in kids and teenagers. I worked with the most extreme kids who even groups like out ward bound would have nothing to do with.

I have only punished (not physical) my son twice in his life. He gets all A's in school and is polite to adults. He is a hard worker and almost an eagle scout at 13. I am sure there will be many hard times a head but I never found the need to spank.

When I did parenting classes at homeless shelters I would tell people that if you spank your kids every day and they are still out of control, its time for a new way to discipline your kids. I have known many good parents who spank. Still I personally see it as unnecessary in good parenting. I believe that a close relationship with your kids is half the battle.

Once at my Hindu Temple I talked to a group of Indian Engineers scientists, and one doctor who won the Right Livelihood Award from the Swedish Parliament.( I would define him as a top person) All of them said they were never hit as kids. Only as teenagers when they did bad at school. I found this interesting and hard to understand. So I agree with you Human behavior is very complex and hard to gauge.

Since I always believed that our behaviour is a product of what we have inside us. I will have to say that, if we spank it is us who have the issue. Not the child. No one is responsible for how we allow ourselves to feel. we are responsible for that. If we don't like something is our problem, no one else's. If they don't like something, it is their problem not ours. People need to take responsibilities for their life.

I think spanking kids is generally ineffective and inappropriate. However, spanking adults is a different story.

Kilgore Trout said:

I think spanking kids is generally ineffective and inappropriate. However, spanking adults is a different story.

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agreed. But we would end up in jail. and I have no plans for spending jail time for people who were holding umbrellas when God rained brains so we can think of better ways to live our life, than being cruel.

The Sum of Awe said:

If a kid misbehaves do you believe it's okay to spank them?

Reminisce I say spank not shoot Seems like quite a few got that confused when I asked that on yahoo answers.

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to save them from deadly dangers (I Don't mean the stove for crying out loud). It's acceptable, if you can avoid it though. Try to avoid it.

If he runs into the street, unless you have a safety harness, spank him. But I suggest you buy one. Win win solutions are better. Try to compromise whenever possible. Do not be permissive, but don't be strict either.

Regarding bad behaviour, don't spank him. Heck, we adults behave worse when we have a reason to. Show some understanding. If people complain tell them to mind their own houses and leave yours alone.

In general I believe spanking can be traumatic. It was for me.