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National Geographic Shoots Itself on the foot?

sandy said:
What a silly thing to say. Science puts it's faith on the line every time it makes a prediction or makes an assumption.
Come now, sandy...we both know there's a big difference between believing in atoms because observable evidence indicates that atoms exist and believing in deities who impregnate virgins and make women out of ribs because....well, because "the Bible says so". There's a big difference between having "faith" (as in, "confidence") in something because of the evidence supporting it, and having a religious faith in something despite the lack of evidence for it.

By the way....can you or can you not think of a single, well-established scientific theory or law which has been completely overturned in the last 100 years?
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Mr Spinkles said:
Come now, sandy...we both know there's a big difference between believing in atoms because observable evidence indicates that atoms exist and believing in deities who impregnate virgins and make women out of ribs because....well, because "the Bible says so". There's a big difference between having "faith" (as in, "confidence") in something because of the evidence supporting it, and having a religious faith in something despite the lack of evidence for it.
Perhaps it may be that your ignorance of Scripture is what makes you say that.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Perhaps it may be that your ignorance of Scripture is what makes you say that.
Clear something up fo us please: are you incapable of understanding Mr Spinkles' question or incapable of responding to it? For what it's worth, this is from someone far from ignorant of scripture.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Clear something up fo us please: are you incapable of understanding Mr Spinkles' question or incapable of responding to it? For what it's worth, this is from someone far from ignorant of scripture.
I responded to Sprinkles original question and then he changed his question. If you, sir are capable of reading then go back and read my comments on what point I am making and you will see why his point is irrelevent to that. Proverbs 26:4
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Did Spinks question substantially change, Sandy, or did he merely re word it to make it more understandable?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Tell me, can you or can you not think of a single, well-established scientific theory or law which has been completely overturned in the last 100 years?
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Sunstone said:
Did Spinks question substantially change, Sandy, or did he merely re word it to make it more understandable?
Perhaps he changed it to say what he really meant but that does not change what I just said. Bunny trails seem to be the preffered form of exersize in this forum.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Perhaps he changed it to say what he really meant but that does not change what I just said. Bunny trails seem to be the preffered form of exersize in this forum.
Can you or can you not answer Spinks "second better phrased" question?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
sandy whitelinger said:
I responded to Sprinkles original question and then he changed his question. If you, sir are capable of reading then go back and read my comments on what point I am making and you will see why his point is irrelevent to that. Proverbs 26:4
Frankly, this sounds evasive.
 
sandy said:
I responded to Sprinkles original question and then he changed his question. If you, sir are capable of reading then go back and read my comments on what point I am making and you will see why his point is irrelevent to that.
I did not change my question. I changed the wording of my question to better convey what I meant. Steady-state cosmology was not "accepted" it had at least one very significant competitor and there was much debate over the issue.

The point is that not all of scientific knowledge is equal, and there are more options open to us than simply "belief" or "nonbelief". We don't have to accept or reject things, but rather we can have degrees of confidence in them. sandy, you could make a very strong argument that we should have little confidence in, say, the RNA world hypothesis (concerning abiogenesis) or string theory (a.k.a. M-theory). There is much debate amongst the scientific community regarding these ideas.

However, your suggestion that, because many scientific hypotheses are proved wrong, we can't have any confidence in any scientific hypothesis/theory/law, is absurd. Evolution, germ theory, Newton's laws, Kepler's laws, the ideal gas laws, Maxwell's laws of electromagnetism, the conservation of energy, thermodynamics, Einstein's mass-energy equivalence and special and general relativity, quantum electrodynamics....these are things that have been subjected to rigorous testing for many years and have passed the test time and again, things that have been consistently supported by independent research from all different fields. It would be silly to interpret the failure of steady-state cosmology as good reason to suspect germ theory or thermodynamics, because steady-state cosmology was not nearly as well-supported and widely accepted as germ theory or thermodynamics.

For goodness' sake, automobiles, bridges, skyscrapers, satellites, cellular phones, computers, aircraft, laser-guided missiles, nuclear power, the mapping of the human genome....it's hard to believe that all this stuff would work if the knowledge on which it was based weren't at least somewhat close to the reality it models. :help:
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Mr Spinkles said:
I did not change my question. I changed the wording of my question to better convey what I meant. Steady-state cosmology was not "accepted" it had at least one very significant competitor and there was much debate over the issue.

The point is that not all of scientific knowledge is equal, and there are more options open to us than simply "belief" or "nonbelief". We don't have to accept or reject things, but rather we can have degrees of confidence in them. sandy, you could make a very strong argument that we should have little confidence in, say, the RNA world hypothesis (concerning abiogenesis) or string theory (a.k.a. M-theory). There is much debate amongst the scientific community regarding these ideas.

However, your suggestion that, because many scientific hypotheses are proved wrong, we can't have any confidence in any scientific hypothesis/theory/law, is absurd. Evolution, germ theory, Newton's laws, Kepler's laws, the ideal gas laws, Maxwell's laws of electromagnetism, the conservation of energy, thermodynamics, Einstein's mass-energy equivalence and special and general relativity, quantum electrodynamics....these are things that have been subjected to rigorous testing for many years and have passed the test time and again, things that have been consistently supported by independent research from all different fields. It would be silly to interpret the failure of steady-state cosmology as good reason to suspect germ theory or thermodynamics, because steady-state cosmology was not nearly as well-supported and widely accepted as germ theory or thermodynamics.

For goodness' sake, automobiles, bridges, skyscrapers, satellites, cellular phones, computers, aircraft, laser-guided missiles, nuclear power, the mapping of the human genome....it's hard to believe that all this stuff would work if the knowledge on which it was based weren't at least somewhat close to the reality it models. :help:
That you have missed my point, which may be attributed to your inerrant desire to follow your own point (which, by the way is a fine example of my point) is why I'm not responding to your questions with a straight answer anymore which is also the answer to Sunstones last inquiry. Have a nice day.:)
 
sandy whitelinger said:
That you have missed my point, which may be attributed to your inerrant desire to follow your own point (which, by the way is a fine example of my point) is why I'm not responding to your questions with a straight answer anymore which is also the answer to Sunstones last inquiry. Have a nice day.:)
Feel free to come back any time you wish and defend your claim:
sandy whitelinger said:
Now that we have gotten frequent flier miles out of this bunny trail I fail to see how any of this has disproved my claim that scientific conclusions are fraught with numerous failed hypothoses and theories that were accepted until proven wrong. This history in no way assures me that todays theories and hypotheses are finally correct.
Let the record show that sandy--nor anyone, for that matter--could think of a single accepted theory or law that had been proven wrong in the last 100 years. :jiggy:
 
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